R.I.P. Pontiac
Senior Member
Joined: 07-05-2008
Posts: 5,464
From: Akron Ohio
Finally, I will say that Wagner was the most progressive CEO and President that GM had while I was employed by them. But, that's not giving much credit. Everyone, starting from the last years of Pete Estes (who had some good early years) to the present were/was/are/is horrible.
I'm off my soapbox and done venting. Besides this is off topic. But, I could tell you stories of financial stupidity that would make your tongue curl.
SORRY, to the OP and the Mod's.
I'm off my soapbox and done venting. Besides this is off topic. But, I could tell you stories of financial stupidity that would make your tongue curl.
SORRY, to the OP and the Mod's.
The Aztec was well on the way when Rick showed up and he brought in Lutz to do what he knew he was not good at.
The ZR1 development price would have changed little even not spent.
Word has been gas would so up for years. Also last fall they said we would never see $2 gas again either! Hind sight is 20/20. If you has to pick another vehicle to make a great profit to rebuild GM what would it have been? The Malibu is a great car and selling well but produces no where the same profit. The trucks were the only option for quick cash. Timing and luck were just bad.
If you want to point out errors the Fiat deal was a mess.
Either way GM is pointed in the right direction now but still needs some work. THe pres pulling Rick out was just a token deal. If he wanted to do any good the board needed to be replaced. But I still don't agree with the goverment telling companies what to do when they have no back ground in building cars.
Either way Two good books on GM are Why GM MAtters just new in book stores and On a Clear Day You Can See GM By John Delorean. They both show why things are as they are today.
The people I know are in marketing and engineering. They are not ones to always tell the company line.
I also had a family member who was well placed in GM from the 20's through the 60's. He was old school GM and of the mind set that brought on this mess. So I have seen it from both sides.
I will never say Rick was perfect but the system limited what he could do.
Whar killed Pontiac is the same things that is killing GM. To little change too late.
Senior Member
Joined: 11-28-2007
Posts: 145
From: Champaign, Illinois
Yeah, I realized I forgot the Cobalt/Cruze and also the "Volt" but I was too tired/lazy to go back and edit the post.
With regard to your comment on being able to find 5 unsold 2008 HHR SS within a 200 mile radius, I know what you're saying. In metro Atlanta, there is only 1 unsold new 2008 HHR SS, but there are quite a few unsold 2009 HHR SS's within a 100 mile radius. I currently have a 2004 Pontiac GTO which I bought new in January 2005, and which I enjoy very much. However, when the GTOs came out in 2004, they couldn't give them away, and I will never understand why. The only thing I can attribute it to is that the automotive media trashed it for looking too "bland" and the lemmings in the general public allowed themselves to miss out on a great car because some idiots in the press, with their mindless, profound loyalty to all cars German and Japanese, decided it was bland looking. It looks good to me, and lots of people give it a second look as I am driving down the street. I get lots of thumbs ups from people walking by and driving by. Obviously, it's not too bland. Similarly, for whatever reason, people don't buy the HHR SS and they sit on dealer lots. With GM's upcoming "recovery" efforts, I am really afraid that they will stop making cars like the HHR SS before I am ready to buy another car for myself.
I would love to have a Chevy HHR SS, but I simply don't "need," at this point to trade the GTO in, and I cannot justify having two personal vehicles for myself. I cannot even convince my wife to get rid of her 2000 Altima GLE with nearly 120,000 miles on it; so I cannot in good conscience have two newer cars for myself while she drives around a nine year old worn out car, which she will not replace because of her concerns about the job market and economy, etc.
Why the general population in America is drawn to boring, bland, underperforming Japanese cars, I cannot understand. I guess they all enjoy driving their boring Hondas and Toyotas, but I just shudder to think that someday, those kinds of cars may be my only choices.
With regard to your comment on being able to find 5 unsold 2008 HHR SS within a 200 mile radius, I know what you're saying. In metro Atlanta, there is only 1 unsold new 2008 HHR SS, but there are quite a few unsold 2009 HHR SS's within a 100 mile radius. I currently have a 2004 Pontiac GTO which I bought new in January 2005, and which I enjoy very much. However, when the GTOs came out in 2004, they couldn't give them away, and I will never understand why. The only thing I can attribute it to is that the automotive media trashed it for looking too "bland" and the lemmings in the general public allowed themselves to miss out on a great car because some idiots in the press, with their mindless, profound loyalty to all cars German and Japanese, decided it was bland looking. It looks good to me, and lots of people give it a second look as I am driving down the street. I get lots of thumbs ups from people walking by and driving by. Obviously, it's not too bland. Similarly, for whatever reason, people don't buy the HHR SS and they sit on dealer lots. With GM's upcoming "recovery" efforts, I am really afraid that they will stop making cars like the HHR SS before I am ready to buy another car for myself.
I would love to have a Chevy HHR SS, but I simply don't "need," at this point to trade the GTO in, and I cannot justify having two personal vehicles for myself. I cannot even convince my wife to get rid of her 2000 Altima GLE with nearly 120,000 miles on it; so I cannot in good conscience have two newer cars for myself while she drives around a nine year old worn out car, which she will not replace because of her concerns about the job market and economy, etc.
Why the general population in America is drawn to boring, bland, underperforming Japanese cars, I cannot understand. I guess they all enjoy driving their boring Hondas and Toyotas, but I just shudder to think that someday, those kinds of cars may be my only choices.
Senior Member
Joined: 01-24-2008
Posts: 725
From: USA
Haven't read all the posts on this but was thinking - just because they are dropping the Pontiac line sure doesn't mean it's gone. They can always bring it back in the future just as they have done with models ie: Camaro, Thunderbird (Ford), etc. Admitedly, this is a badge, but it could be done.
Senior Member
Joined: 03-27-2008
Posts: 471
From: Blue Springs Missouri
Haven't read all the posts on this but was thinking - just because they are dropping the Pontiac line sure doesn't mean it's gone. They can always bring it back in the future just as they have done with models ie: Camaro, Thunderbird (Ford), etc. Admitedly, this is a badge, but it could be done.
but then again the thunderbird flew the coupe again..........
Senior Member
Joined: 12-20-2008
Posts: 835
From: durham north carolina
sweet
that's a sweet ride. i don't recall ever seeing 1.......also to add some good news to this thread...i don't think it's been metioned yet , and it is the only thing i can think of....... i would think that values of most pontiacs will go up 
New Member
Joined: 02-14-2009
Posts: 26
From: Georgia
I hope so, but it didn't work out that way for Plymouth or Oldsmobile.
New Member
Joined: 02-14-2009
Posts: 26
From: Georgia
I looked at the new GTO when it came out...amazing how the car magazines (and I agreed with them) made fun of Pontiac and their plastic clad cars which morphed into the single ugliest and biggest piece of garbage this side of the LeCar; the Aztek. A vehicle that made the Edsel look good. Like I said, I liked the GTO, but I could not find one with a manual, an dyou could not get one with a sunroof. I will not own a vehicle that doesnt have a sunroof or convertible top. Secondly, in regards to Buick being a geezers car - I have owned a bunch of cars (approx 35) and the single best car I ever owned - a 1966 Electra, followed by a 1967 Skylark. Buick makes fantastic cars - but everyone under a certain age has forgotten or never knew there was a time that Buicks were the cars to own. A Buick symbolized you had made it. But Roger Smith saw that Buicks and Chevys and Pontiacs became the same. God damn him for doing it. Roger Smith and Bob Eaton killed the American Car Industry. Bill Ford tried. It is a sad time - and we may or may not see some manufacturers carry on. But hey, Toyota makes a great, if ugly, product. American cars always had styling that was missing from the European and Asian products, then the 70's and 80's happened. American Cars pulled out for a bit, but it may have been too many years of poor management that killed them.
Please pardon my angry vent session.
I would modify one of your statements: Buick made great cars. I liked the Gran Sports from the late 60s and early 70s, the Rivieras from that time frame, the old Wildcats, and even the mid eighties GNs with the 3.8 turbos, but those days are long gone. I had a 1997 Buick Skylark, and it was a scary ride to have to go around some corners at normal traffic speed. That was probably the worst handling car that I ever owned (other than my first car, a 1961 Ford Galaxy.)
Each of us has an opinion as to what constitutes a good looking car, but I can't think of a single Toyota or Honda in which the styling appeals to me. Especially Toyotas. Add to that their cheap manufacturing practices (timing belts instead of timing chains, etc.) and that they now cost more than American brands... But the media has told us that the imports have better quality, so they must be right, must they not? I'm sorry to say I have never seen what constitutes better quality to the media. I guess they don't mind having to replace a timing belt every 60,000 miles, nor mind how expensive that little bit of "planned obsolescence" is.