Increased fuel economy is good any way you look it.
Cows Farting...funny, but TRUE!
Why take a chance, why should it rule some peoples lives. I don't want to live in fear of harming the environment. I use things that reportedly are environment friendly, but not for the that reason. It is just trying to be money smart. Here is a wierd "global warming" fact type thing. A california legislature has talked about banning normal incandescent light bulbs in favor of the long life flouresent bulbs. You have to research to find out that their is mercury in the flouresent bulbs. If we are forced to use those, what do we do with the mercury? There is not much mercury per bulb, but it will add up. Sounds like a good idea to go to the long life bulbs, but is it. Does the politician make a good argument? Yes, until someone asks about the mercury, and if you don't know about the mercury, it is a great idea, so lets make incandescant lightbulbs ilegal to protect the envinronement base on energy used/ carbon footprint.
Now you have all the info on the bulbs, old style light bulbs illegal or not?

 

Not trying to dig on Gore, but when you talk Global Warming, he is the unofficial leader. But yes, I do not like him.

 

I am worried about my kids future, but global warming is not the problem. Don't ask or it will get worse and I have to get to bed.
No hard feelings I hope. I just like to try to pass on info so people can make more well informed decisions or cause them to research things themselves and make their decisions based on that.

 

No, we cannot prove it either way, BUT we have proved fluorocarbons effect ozone in a negative manner, so is it NOT a good idea to perhaps curtail some of the human factors that MIGHT aid in destroying our environment? Just a thought.

I would think everyone should care about human interaction with the environment and err on the side of caution when possible.
Too bad everyone seems to politicize all the sides to everything these days. I guess we CAN"T all get along...sigh. Stupid politicians making everyone crazy and at each other's throats.

But anyway, don't be dogmatically opposed to humans changing some of the things we do because we may be feel we are doing something "good for the environment". It is simply silly to hate for hate's sake. Besides, it is too much effort!

And yes, nature itself does have farting cows! But WE have nurtured more cows than would likely have been alive in a more "natural state" of the planet, so perhaps we are adding to the stench! Anyway, I don't intend to stop eating meat, but recognizing a cause and effect is not out of my cognitive sobriety.
Flame away, as I expect....sigh..............

 

No flaming, just discussion.
My point is that global warming is more political than scientific. I hear to many people that are scared of global warming, and that is not the reason to do your part. That is not the way a free society should live. I don't drive an SUV, but I don't believe you shouldn't due to the environment. I believe you should have the right to make your choice. But with global warming, an SUV carries the global warming guilt and it shouldn't. It has not been scientifically proven. It is been decided, by gore and the media that it exists. I get tired of politicians like gore, yes he keeps coming up since he is the leader of the global warming movement, tell us all the bad things we are doing and what we should do to "fix" it. He quotes the minority of scientists that also believe in global warming, without consideration from those that say it does not exist. He also pays more monthly than most of us do yearly to take care of his housing bills. He travels via private jet. He does the things that we are told not to do. He then plays off this "carbon credit" thing which doesn't mean he does his part, he just pays money and he is guilt free. I have heard the term "carbon credit" but I am not sure where one buys them.
Again, not flaming, just thought provoking I hope.

 

I too find it funny that Al Gore can simultaneously use more energy in a month than the average Joe uses in a whole year yet at the same time be the poster child for the fight against climate change.

The disappointing aspect in this is that politics are clouding the issue. It is true that there is still a debate over the impact of human activity on the environment. While there is doubt about our impact, I don’t think this debate should curtail our efforts to become more environmentally friendly.

Automakers should be forced to raise the bar on fuel economy. The horsepower numbers keep going up because manufacturers know that so long as they get 22 mpg City and 31 mpg Highway for a family sedan (Toyota Camry V6) that will be good enough. Do you really need a family sedan with 268hp that goes 0-60 in 5.8 seconds? Yes, it is fun to have something like that but surely there is better fuel economy to be had, but automakers won’t do it unless they are forced to. While there are niche vehicles that sell well (Prius) it has always been performance – not fuel economy – that sells cars.

Cars need to continue to get better fuel economy, be more recyclable, be built in more environmentally sound way, and in an overall sense become more environmentally friendly. We only have one planet – do you really want to wait until the debate is over before you demand change?

When there is a doubt, there is no doubt.

 

Well said!
To bad the anti Gore crowd often clouds right wing talking points with reality. The reality is Gore is figurheading a train of thought that says we ARE impacting our environment and SHOULD pay attention to it. Now a lot more is said by him and others, but human impact is the kernel we should all take away from the "argument"
It is short sighted to think we all cannot see we are having some negative impacts on our environment. Personally I think over fishing will have a more dire impact on humanity in the short run than any eventual climate change.

We all have to stop sounding like hate filled broken records and railing against politicos who polarize us.
Now my turn to do just that:
Yes, Gore is a partial hypocrite, so is Newt, so is Dubya, so is Bubba, your points? None of them represent everyday folk. All are super rich and consequently cannot and do not understand most of the people in this world. Even growing up in an orphanage seems NOT to matter .........Insular circles and all...........


Now with the type of idiots in control of the White House, we know Machiavellian traits are alive and well. The end justifies the means. That is current mandate by the politicos, so lets extend that a bit, eh.....

If the means is we have to deal with Al Gore etc to get lets say MANDATED, (Yes, that horrible arm twisting, oh-so-anti American word ), fuel economy standards, then so be it. The idea that the markets will take care of it is crap, and always has been. And I'm a Libertarian saying this! There are times government NEEDS to kick private industry, not often, but this is again one of those times.

Yes, tax incentives for driving Prius's are fine and all, but hey, I went to look at one and the Toyota folks wanted three grand over invoice!. I asked why, and they said
"Because they could get it". Yeah, free working economy!".....
That more than negated the tax savings they were citing as an incentive to buy one. Yeah, the markets will sort things out, right...........

Heck, I like the safety standards the auto industry added in the mid sixties under pressure from Ralph Nader and company, and I drive Corvairs! The auto world and our world is much safer because of that. Auto makers did not want to admit autos could have undesirable flaws that could hurt people. They were greedy cowards. Safety glass and seatbelts anyone.........

But as has been said, fuel economy in the mid twenties makes us all somewhat happy, so with CAFE standards being a balancing act, we have been able to have our cake and eat it too. SUVs by the bazzilion while Chevetts are produced as a counter measure.
Now in this case, the market may be helping to sort things out, which unfortunately leaves the US auto industry reeling while happy consumers flock to foreign econoboxes once again. Too much reliance on the profits of SUVs led to an unhealthy situation when the public turned from them. Perhaps if CAFE standards had been updated the US manufacturers would have had a better economically friendly/MPG staple of cars to offer us. We'll never know....

So I do hope for higher CAFE type standards, and yes perhaps at the expense of some HP, but it should all lead to a better tomorrow where the US is LESS reliant on oil from places who hold our economy ransom., and more reliant on ourselves. We owe our troops that much

So I say put up with Gore etc, read between the lines and realize we are likely impacting our planet in SOME negative ways. Just because some of you hate him, you should not dismiss everything he may bring to the surface as utter crap. Gore, total hypocrite, in some ways yes. Total hyperbole, no. More germs of truth than some of us may want to let in..........

 

 

Thanks Hills! It took a while to compose, but I think I got there without yelling
Now if you checkout my post in the Saturn Aura thread you'll see no such restraint

 

Harpo.........great post! Hope your fingertips are okay after all that.