Miles on an Oil Change
Senior Member
Joined: 01-13-2008
Posts: 4,708
From: Washington State, where it rains
When V8's still ruled I'd run 500 miles on factory oil change to a good dino oil for 2k then go synthetic from that point on(old rules). Oil is oil no matter the base type. Its not like your adding some supplement that coats anything inside the eng, say like Slick50, so running syn from day one is no different then running dino, its still just oil.
New Member
Joined: 11-09-2010
Posts: 13
From: Saskatchewan
Just as I thought.....an opinion....no facts or documentation. I spoke nothing of warranty. And I spoke nothing of proper or improper break in. The issue, as you claimed, is the harm to the engine.
If you do a search, you may find the statement by GM that I posted. But in a nutshell it states, the switch does NO harm to an engine and THAT CLAIM IS A MYTH. AND all regular (not crate)production engines, those built for "fossil" oil and synthetic, are built utilizing the same materials and technologies. So their multi million engines that are on the road, use synthetic directly from the factory to support that claim (not to mention, all the competitors as well).
As others know, I worked at GM's advanced engineering facility probably for more years than you turned a wrench (the sales experience means very little). So I'll stick with the MILLIONS of miles I witnessed on test vehicles.....especially after seeing them disassembled, measured and reassembled....then continue to accrue additional miles, measured and reassembled.
And you are correct, I feel I am correct and need to challenge misstatements when I see them. It is not a "personal thing" against you. That is just me....because I very much dislike lies (not that you are) mis-truths and misleading statements.
But, as you say, you can do what you wish......all I'm saying is don't supply info, that is contrary to the norm, without some valid support.
If you do a search, you may find the statement by GM that I posted. But in a nutshell it states, the switch does NO harm to an engine and THAT CLAIM IS A MYTH. AND all regular (not crate)production engines, those built for "fossil" oil and synthetic, are built utilizing the same materials and technologies. So their multi million engines that are on the road, use synthetic directly from the factory to support that claim (not to mention, all the competitors as well).
As others know, I worked at GM's advanced engineering facility probably for more years than you turned a wrench (the sales experience means very little). So I'll stick with the MILLIONS of miles I witnessed on test vehicles.....especially after seeing them disassembled, measured and reassembled....then continue to accrue additional miles, measured and reassembled.
And you are correct, I feel I am correct and need to challenge misstatements when I see them. It is not a "personal thing" against you. That is just me....because I very much dislike lies (not that you are) mis-truths and misleading statements.
But, as you say, you can do what you wish......all I'm saying is don't supply info, that is contrary to the norm, without some valid support.
In turn, a well broken in engine will be good for several hundred thousand miles where not properly broken in is often done before 200,000
You're snearing at my sales experience as well, I snear at your union attitude right back at you. I work hard for my money and deserve every penny, teamsters are a whole different topic
Take a harley davidson screaming eagle engine as an example, since you want specifics and dismiss anything else I have to say... it is built, pre-run on conventional oil, and then shipped with synthetic.
Platinum Member
Joined: 05-09-2006
Posts: 6,805
From: "Upland" Mesa, Arizona
Union, Union...what F....ing union. And you accuse me of not being able to read. I said nothing, I did not hint, I did not suggest anything of a UNION. You better do a search on me and see where I stand on unions. I'm a very supportive company man (being from the salaried group).
Oh, and I don't believe there are any Teamster members at any of the GM Testing facilities.....maybe an occasional truck driver. Where did you get that idea?
Now I'll become a little defensive (with a little explanation)....My comment about your sales experience was to display the lack of creditability of sales people when it comes to semi-technical to technical information....at least based on the responses and experiences of many members of this forum. I'm not discrediting you personally as a sales manager.
If you hadn't noticed, we are speaking of HHR's here, not Harley Davidson. So I'll provide my example (at least it's Chevrolet)...take a ZR1 which is built and run for 30 minutes on synthetic oil, drained and analyzed, new synthetic is then installed in the vehicle and shipped to the dealer/owner.
But as a final example, what about the "standard engine" Corvettes. The SS HHR. The Cobalt SS/Turbo. The Saturn Sky Turbo. The Pontiac GXP Turbo. The Cadillac ....etc. etc. ALL ARE SHIPPED FROM THE FACTORY WITH SYNTHETIC OIL. And now in the new vehicles, GM is mandating the new dexos oil, which is partly synthetic...all straight from the factory.......and allowing the potential owner to do the break in. You must have knowledge of this as a sales manager.
I still maintain...you have not supplied one piece of creditable evidence to support your claim of, "...the rings will never seat....". AND THAT IS THE MAIN ISSUE. If you can do so, I will acknowledge and withdraw my argument.
Good Luck...
Platinum Member
Joined: 05-09-2006
Posts: 6,805
From: "Upland" Mesa, Arizona
When V8's still ruled I'd run 500 miles on factory oil change to a good dino oil for 2k then go synthetic from that point on(old rules). Oil is oil no matter the base type. Its not like your adding some supplement that coats anything inside the eng, say like Slick50, so running syn from day one is no different then running dino, its still just oil.
Many years ago, probably something like 20, synthetics did take a "bad rap" when used on higher mileage vehicles. MANY sustained leakage and seal problems (I had not). But that has been corrected, for the most part. That is probably where Sn00P is basing his opinion.
Senior Member
Joined: 01-13-2008
Posts: 4,708
From: Washington State, where it rains
Right..that was 20 years ago and that was the norm......syn was still maturing, Now though, its the norm and not the exception. The metalurgy is different and more precise, things came along way since them days...you could almost break these things in on cooking oil.....I can remember breakins with straight 30 weight non-detergent oil because you didnt want the moly to be washed away so quick. Like you said..30 minutes and send it on its way...in my case straight to the race track. Didnt have a dyno to run it in so the track had to do. Worked fine..it didnt have to last 20 years and 250k miles.Even though one season about equalled it! anyways now a days any motor thats serious is run on syn , there just isnt any other way.
Platinum Member
Joined: 01-09-2007
Posts: 16,081
From: SE USA
Synthetic oil has been around since the late 1930's when German scientist Dr. Hermann Zornteri invented it. The first synthetic oil was used in German aircraft engines in the Second World War. By the mid 1960's Chevron was the first company to produce a complete range of 100% synthetic oils. Although synthetic oil was used in the aerospace industry for many years it did not become available for automobile engines until the American Petroleum Institute (API) approved the
formula. In 1972 Amsoil sold one of the first synthetic oils for cars, which was their 10W-40.
(Add on): The invention of synthetic fuel oil and lubricants during WWII was an attempt to replace supplies of natural oil that had been cut off by the war..
formula. In 1972 Amsoil sold one of the first synthetic oils for cars, which was their 10W-40.
(Add on): The invention of synthetic fuel oil and lubricants during WWII was an attempt to replace supplies of natural oil that had been cut off by the war..
Senior Member
Joined: 10-21-2008
Posts: 1,831
From: hemet, calif.
Synthetic oil has been around since the late 1930's when German scientist Dr. Hermann Zornteri invented it. The first synthetic oil was used in German aircraft engines in the Second World War. By the mid 1960's Chevron was the first company to produce a complete range of 100% synthetic oils. Although synthetic oil was used in the aerospace industry for many years it did not become available for automobile engines until the American Petroleum Institute (API) approved the
formula. In 1972 Amsoil sold one of the first synthetic oils for cars, which was their 10W-40.
(Add on): The invention of synthetic fuel oil and lubricants during WWII was an attempt to replace supplies of natural oil that had been cut off by the war..
formula. In 1972 Amsoil sold one of the first synthetic oils for cars, which was their 10W-40.
(Add on): The invention of synthetic fuel oil and lubricants during WWII was an attempt to replace supplies of natural oil that had been cut off by the war..
New Member
Joined: 11-09-2010
Posts: 13
From: Saskatchewan
I do humbly apologize...I thought rings NEVER seating was engine damage/harm. Maybe not.
Union, Union...what F....ing union. And you accuse me of not being able to read. I said nothing, I did not hint, I did not suggest anything of a UNION. You better do a search on me and see where I stand on unions. I'm a very supportive company man (being from the salaried group).
Oh, and I don't believe there are any Teamster members at any of the GM Testing facilities.....maybe an occasional truck driver. Where did you get that idea?
Now I'll become a little defensive (with a little explanation)....My comment about your sales experience was to display the lack of creditability of sales people when it comes to semi-technical to technical information....at least based on the responses and experiences of many members of this forum. I'm not discrediting you personally as a sales manager.
If you hadn't noticed, we are speaking of HHR's here, not Harley Davidson. So I'll provide my example (at least it's Chevrolet)...take a ZR1 which is built and run for 30 minutes on synthetic oil, drained and analyzed, new synthetic is then installed in the vehicle and shipped to the dealer/owner.
But as a final example, what about the "standard engine" Corvettes. The SS HHR. The Cobalt SS/Turbo. The Saturn Sky Turbo. The Pontiac GXP Turbo. The Cadillac ....etc. etc. ALL ARE SHIPPED FROM THE FACTORY WITH SYNTHETIC OIL. And now in the new vehicles, GM is mandating the new dexos oil, which is partly synthetic...all straight from the factory.......and allowing the potential owner to do the break in. You must have knowledge of this as a sales manager.
I still maintain...you have not supplied one piece of creditable evidence to support your claim of, "...the rings will never seat....". AND THAT IS THE MAIN ISSUE. If you can do so, I will acknowledge and withdraw my argument.
Good Luck...
Union, Union...what F....ing union. And you accuse me of not being able to read. I said nothing, I did not hint, I did not suggest anything of a UNION. You better do a search on me and see where I stand on unions. I'm a very supportive company man (being from the salaried group).
Oh, and I don't believe there are any Teamster members at any of the GM Testing facilities.....maybe an occasional truck driver. Where did you get that idea?
Now I'll become a little defensive (with a little explanation)....My comment about your sales experience was to display the lack of creditability of sales people when it comes to semi-technical to technical information....at least based on the responses and experiences of many members of this forum. I'm not discrediting you personally as a sales manager.
If you hadn't noticed, we are speaking of HHR's here, not Harley Davidson. So I'll provide my example (at least it's Chevrolet)...take a ZR1 which is built and run for 30 minutes on synthetic oil, drained and analyzed, new synthetic is then installed in the vehicle and shipped to the dealer/owner.
But as a final example, what about the "standard engine" Corvettes. The SS HHR. The Cobalt SS/Turbo. The Saturn Sky Turbo. The Pontiac GXP Turbo. The Cadillac ....etc. etc. ALL ARE SHIPPED FROM THE FACTORY WITH SYNTHETIC OIL. And now in the new vehicles, GM is mandating the new dexos oil, which is partly synthetic...all straight from the factory.......and allowing the potential owner to do the break in. You must have knowledge of this as a sales manager.
I still maintain...you have not supplied one piece of creditable evidence to support your claim of, "...the rings will never seat....". AND THAT IS THE MAIN ISSUE. If you can do so, I will acknowledge and withdraw my argument.
Good Luck...
Elvis and Hitler are living together in south america if you buy into that kind of mentality.
My experience is much more valuable tome than someone who chooses to believe he is right at all costs.
Dexos is an api rating available in many forms including semi synthetic and full synthetic, you're absolutely right that gm offers it.