Brake Problem
10-19-2008, 10:35 AM
#1
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: 04-08-2008
Location: Asheville NC
Posts: 44
Brake Problem
I know this issue has been addressed in several posts but my circumstances and troubleshooting are very different so I am starting a new thread. Feel free to move the post.
I picked up my SS on a Friday and installed ceramic brake pads on the following Monday due to excessive brake dust on the wheels. The car braking was flawless for over 5k miles. Then I started to get a slight shake in the steering wheel under light braking. The shake in the wheel was subtle and under hard braking it went away. This is typical of a warped rotor.
Now I'm planning on keeping the car and I have had really bad luck with Ford, Chevrolet and Dodge service departments. So if I can fix it myself I will. So to keep from having my car out of service for a day or two I purchased a new set of brake rotors, front and rear.
I installed the new rotors at around 6.5k miles and the brake pads still look new and evenly worn. For a couple days the brakes worked flawlessly. Then the slight shake in the wheel returned. I had the factory rotors turned at my local Carquest. The machinist said that one rotor was very slightly warped but shouldn't have been noticeable. So maybe one of the new ones was not true out of the box.
I painted the inside of the factory rotors black w/high temp paint. (why Chevrolet puts unpainted rotors that they know will rust on cars with wide open wheels where they will be seen is beyond me)
I then reinstalled the factory, freshly turned and painted rotors on the car. I even removed the pins that hold the "pad holder" and thoroughly greased them with caliper grease just to make sure the caliper was floating properly. Again it braked flawlessly for a couple days. Then the shake in the wheel returned and a couple thousand miles later the wheel really jerks around under hard braking.
FYI: EVERY time the wheels have been removed from the car the lug nuts have been torqued with a manual torque wrench to 100 ft lbs. The braking problem always starts with a slight shake in the wheel and has gotten progressively worse over time.
Here's the "kicker". It doesn't shake under braking all the time. It comes and goes. I can be running 70mph down the highway, slightly brake and get a terrible shake in the wheel. Then I brake a second time and it's smooth as silk. Sometimes it shakes every time I touch the brake pedal, sometimes it doesn't shake the entire trip!
A warped rotor should shake all the time!
Could this be a caliper problem? Is one caliper "pulsing" like it does under an anti lock situation?
The car goes to the dealer on Tuesday, any ideas?
I picked up my SS on a Friday and installed ceramic brake pads on the following Monday due to excessive brake dust on the wheels. The car braking was flawless for over 5k miles. Then I started to get a slight shake in the steering wheel under light braking. The shake in the wheel was subtle and under hard braking it went away. This is typical of a warped rotor.
Now I'm planning on keeping the car and I have had really bad luck with Ford, Chevrolet and Dodge service departments. So if I can fix it myself I will. So to keep from having my car out of service for a day or two I purchased a new set of brake rotors, front and rear.
I installed the new rotors at around 6.5k miles and the brake pads still look new and evenly worn. For a couple days the brakes worked flawlessly. Then the slight shake in the wheel returned. I had the factory rotors turned at my local Carquest. The machinist said that one rotor was very slightly warped but shouldn't have been noticeable. So maybe one of the new ones was not true out of the box.
I painted the inside of the factory rotors black w/high temp paint. (why Chevrolet puts unpainted rotors that they know will rust on cars with wide open wheels where they will be seen is beyond me)
I then reinstalled the factory, freshly turned and painted rotors on the car. I even removed the pins that hold the "pad holder" and thoroughly greased them with caliper grease just to make sure the caliper was floating properly. Again it braked flawlessly for a couple days. Then the shake in the wheel returned and a couple thousand miles later the wheel really jerks around under hard braking.
FYI: EVERY time the wheels have been removed from the car the lug nuts have been torqued with a manual torque wrench to 100 ft lbs. The braking problem always starts with a slight shake in the wheel and has gotten progressively worse over time.
Here's the "kicker". It doesn't shake under braking all the time. It comes and goes. I can be running 70mph down the highway, slightly brake and get a terrible shake in the wheel. Then I brake a second time and it's smooth as silk. Sometimes it shakes every time I touch the brake pedal, sometimes it doesn't shake the entire trip!
A warped rotor should shake all the time!
Could this be a caliper problem? Is one caliper "pulsing" like it does under an anti lock situation?
The car goes to the dealer on Tuesday, any ideas?
10-19-2008, 10:52 AM
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: 09-02-2007
Location: Greencastle, PA
Posts: 152
I do not have a SS but on my 2LT I replaced the front pads and rotors with EBC slotted/dimpled rotors and ther RED ceramic pads. I also have periodic pulsing in the brakes, but only going down a mountain which I do twice a day on weekdays going to work.
I installed these myself and torqued everything, the caliper mounting bracket bolts, the caliper mounting bolts and the wheel lugs in a crossing pattern.
I am starting to think it is something else. Could the front wheel bearings have too much play in them allowing the rotors to have too much lateral movement?
I've never owned a vehicle in the past with a pulsing problem like this.
TomR
I installed these myself and torqued everything, the caliper mounting bracket bolts, the caliper mounting bolts and the wheel lugs in a crossing pattern.
I am starting to think it is something else. Could the front wheel bearings have too much play in them allowing the rotors to have too much lateral movement?
I've never owned a vehicle in the past with a pulsing problem like this.
TomR
10-19-2008, 10:55 AM
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: 08-26-2008
Location: Sequim Washington
Posts: 1,488
Sounds like it's worth getting there opinion but I doubt they will do warantee repairs with your aftermarket parts on the car. They may ask you to reinstall all the new factory parts you removed and see if it still happens.
For the record..what brand of Ceramic pads and rotors did you put on?
For the record..what brand of Ceramic pads and rotors did you put on?
10-19-2008, 11:07 AM
#4
Member
Join Date: 09-11-2007
Location: Alabama
Posts: 43
I have made several posts on this and other forums regarding brakes. I have a 2006 HHR 2LT that had recurring brake issues. I purchased the vehicle used with 26K miles showing. It was at the dealer three times in the next 10K miles for pulsating brakes. After my 36K mile warranty was gone, I chose to try and repair the brakes myself. I did extensive research on this issue and my determination was the very hard ceramic pads were at fault rather than the rotors. In March 2008 I went to AutoZone and bought rotors and semi metallic organic pads. The parts that I removed from the vehicle look almost as good as those I replaced them with. I used a wire brush in a drill to clean the hubs where the rotors mate to them. I used a torque wrench to tighten the lugs to 100 lbs/ft. I have had no brake problems since I did this installation.
The parts I removed are sitting on the shelf in my garage. The rotors are quite rusty, but could, I feel sure, be turned and re-used. AutoZone has a two year warranty on the rotors and a lifetime warranty on the pads.
Almost every posting on the forums refers to this “problem” as warped brake rotors. If this is the problem, then why does it keep coming back? Changing the pad material to something softer solved my brake issues. I have 61K miles on the HHR today and never a brake problem. I get brake dust on my wheels, and I don’t like it, but it washes off and shuddering brakes don’t.
One brake manufacturer had a write up posted that stated the problem was caused by driving the car rather than using the brakes. Their contention was the pads oscillate and set up a wear pattern on the rotor face. Applying the brakes then causes a reaction between the pads and the rotors. Almost everyone I have seen that stays with factory parts or ceramic pads is having the ongoing problem.
This is how I repaired my HHR. Do some research and see what you find. It cost me about $120 to have excellent brakes and get rid of the problem.
The parts I removed are sitting on the shelf in my garage. The rotors are quite rusty, but could, I feel sure, be turned and re-used. AutoZone has a two year warranty on the rotors and a lifetime warranty on the pads.
Almost every posting on the forums refers to this “problem” as warped brake rotors. If this is the problem, then why does it keep coming back? Changing the pad material to something softer solved my brake issues. I have 61K miles on the HHR today and never a brake problem. I get brake dust on my wheels, and I don’t like it, but it washes off and shuddering brakes don’t.
One brake manufacturer had a write up posted that stated the problem was caused by driving the car rather than using the brakes. Their contention was the pads oscillate and set up a wear pattern on the rotor face. Applying the brakes then causes a reaction between the pads and the rotors. Almost everyone I have seen that stays with factory parts or ceramic pads is having the ongoing problem.
This is how I repaired my HHR. Do some research and see what you find. It cost me about $120 to have excellent brakes and get rid of the problem.
10-20-2008, 10:06 AM
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: 04-10-2006
Location: Simi Valley, CA
Posts: 195
The SS I have is my third HHR, only the first SS. I have always used OEM brake materials and have never had a problem.
I was fortunate enough to get invited to visit GMs "Brake Lab" at the Milford Proving Ground last year and I was VERY impressed at the amount of engineering and testing they do on brake material and the different compositions of the components. Realizing that any OEM brake pad is somewhat of a compromise, I feel that overall they (engineering) make sure that the pad material is pretty good and will do the job with the least problem.
I was fortunate enough to get invited to visit GMs "Brake Lab" at the Milford Proving Ground last year and I was VERY impressed at the amount of engineering and testing they do on brake material and the different compositions of the components. Realizing that any OEM brake pad is somewhat of a compromise, I feel that overall they (engineering) make sure that the pad material is pretty good and will do the job with the least problem.
10-20-2008, 11:24 AM
#8
Platinum Member
Join Date: 04-09-2006
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 7,032
Just replaced the front brakes
80,000+ Km and the front brakes shook so bad they were getting dangerous, and this was after the dealer cut down the front rotors at somewhere around 25,000 Km due to warped rotors. So finally called the local Canadian dealer for price quote on front rotors - $270 EACH!!!!, but "aftermarket" ones were only $98 (made by ACDelco) - so checked GMpartsdirect - GM rotors listed at $159.68 discounted down to $83!!! So can someone explain to me how Canadian dealers can charge almost double for their parts ($270 vrs. $159)? Well I was fed up with the originals anyway and wanted some aftermarket ones.
So I checked NAPA US online - rotors listed for $55 US - called local NAPA in Canada - $74 list, discounted down to $57!!!!
NAPA Canada got my business on this one - ordered rotors and a new set of pads - installed in about two hours for less than $180 including tax. The time would have been less if I wasn't interrupted with chatting with the neighbours
) - figure a half hour per side or one hour for the total job if you tackle it yourself.
Once done, I took the car for a short drive - what a difference - I forgot how brakes should feel!!!!! No vibration -
no tugging on the steering wheel etc. - Just smooth stops.
The pads were almost worn out - maybe 5% left, so it was a good time to change them out.
So I checked NAPA US online - rotors listed for $55 US - called local NAPA in Canada - $74 list, discounted down to $57!!!!
NAPA Canada got my business on this one - ordered rotors and a new set of pads - installed in about two hours for less than $180 including tax. The time would have been less if I wasn't interrupted with chatting with the neighbours
) - figure a half hour per side or one hour for the total job if you tackle it yourself. Once done, I took the car for a short drive - what a difference - I forgot how brakes should feel!!!!! No vibration -
no tugging on the steering wheel etc. - Just smooth stops.The pads were almost worn out - maybe 5% left, so it was a good time to change them out.
10-20-2008, 08:37 PM
#10
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: 04-08-2008
Location: Asheville NC
Posts: 44
The dealer told me today they can turn the rotors while on the car? Two rotors turned for $110. Cost me $48 to carry all four into the local Carquest!
Anyone ever heard of this? I'm going to let them try to fix it tomorrow.
Anyone ever heard of this? I'm going to let them try to fix it tomorrow.