Squishy brakes after running out of things to replace
10-27-2021, 06:23 PM
#1
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Thread Starter
Join Date: 08-29-2018
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 43
Squishy brakes after running out of things to replace
2008 Chevy HHR 2LT 2.4 engine
Squishy brakes. Sometimes the brakes are solid, mostly after they’ve been “pumped up” or pressed a couple times in a row. But sometimes the pedal is very soft especially on the first press, like for example it happens a lot when I’m reversing out of my parking spot, or if it has been a few seconds since I last pumped up the brakes, and it goes almost to the floor and then activates the brakes at the bottom. It happens pretty randomly and sometimes the pedal is perfectly firm and brakes well. One time when the pedal went to the floor and then started braking at the bottom, the car swerved to the left when the brakes activated.
Replaced: The small brake lines on each wheel (not the full brake lines), the brake booster, the master cylinder, the master cylinder again on warranty, drums, rotors, brakes shoes and pads, got it professionally pressure bled today and he said he also bled the ABS. They checked for kinked/pinched brake lines and said all good. Still having squishy brakes!
It is not leaking fluid, the fluid is always full to the very top when I check it, and I’ve been checking it over a period of 2 months.
Some things I found on the site about squishy brakes:
“To test the booster:
engine off
pump the brakes until the pedal is hard
while holding pressure on the pedal start the engine
the pedal should then go down if not it is bad.”
Tested booster this way, pedal went down as described
“To check for a bad master cylinder, with the engine off, hold light pressure on the pedal and see if the pedal goes to the floor.”
Tested, with light pressure the pedal does not go down to the floor, but it does if I force it. (I mean… how light is “light” pressure.)
What could be happening?
Squishy brakes. Sometimes the brakes are solid, mostly after they’ve been “pumped up” or pressed a couple times in a row. But sometimes the pedal is very soft especially on the first press, like for example it happens a lot when I’m reversing out of my parking spot, or if it has been a few seconds since I last pumped up the brakes, and it goes almost to the floor and then activates the brakes at the bottom. It happens pretty randomly and sometimes the pedal is perfectly firm and brakes well. One time when the pedal went to the floor and then started braking at the bottom, the car swerved to the left when the brakes activated.
Replaced: The small brake lines on each wheel (not the full brake lines), the brake booster, the master cylinder, the master cylinder again on warranty, drums, rotors, brakes shoes and pads, got it professionally pressure bled today and he said he also bled the ABS. They checked for kinked/pinched brake lines and said all good. Still having squishy brakes!
It is not leaking fluid, the fluid is always full to the very top when I check it, and I’ve been checking it over a period of 2 months.
Some things I found on the site about squishy brakes:
“To test the booster:
engine off
pump the brakes until the pedal is hard
while holding pressure on the pedal start the engine
the pedal should then go down if not it is bad.”
Tested booster this way, pedal went down as described
“To check for a bad master cylinder, with the engine off, hold light pressure on the pedal and see if the pedal goes to the floor.”
Tested, with light pressure the pedal does not go down to the floor, but it does if I force it. (I mean… how light is “light” pressure.)
What could be happening?
10-27-2021, 06:31 PM
#3
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Join Date: 10-13-2011
Location: Welland,Ont Canada
Posts: 36,676
You said you replaced small brake lines on each wheel, to clarify are you saying metal brake lines or the flex hoses?
you don’t mention replacing the calipers or rear drum brake wheel cylinders. Or the flex hoses to the rear axle.
you don’t mention replacing the calipers or rear drum brake wheel cylinders. Or the flex hoses to the rear axle.
10-27-2021, 08:25 PM
#5
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: 08-29-2018
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 43
“you don’t mention replacing the calipers or rear drum brake wheel cylinders”
I’m not sure if they replaced the calipers when the pads got done, but I will ask tomorrow when they open. He may not remember. Also I’m not sure what the cylinders are, but the whole drum assembly was replaced. Could that be causing the problem?
“Bad policy to keep the brake reservoir "topped off". That is how to measure disc pad wear.”
I don’t top it off because it has been the same (extra full) for the past 2 months but it is very full. The first time I checked it some fluid dripped out it was so full. The rest of the times it was just extremely full all the way to the opening. Is that bad?
“sounds to me like very loose rear shoes”
I will definitely ask about that!
also by shoes I meant rear shoes, all the brakes (edit: by that I mean the front brake pads and the rear shoes) were replaced when I got the front rotors and rear drums replaced. But I will ask if they are loose.
I’m not sure if they replaced the calipers when the pads got done, but I will ask tomorrow when they open. He may not remember. Also I’m not sure what the cylinders are, but the whole drum assembly was replaced. Could that be causing the problem?
“Bad policy to keep the brake reservoir "topped off". That is how to measure disc pad wear.”
I don’t top it off because it has been the same (extra full) for the past 2 months but it is very full. The first time I checked it some fluid dripped out it was so full. The rest of the times it was just extremely full all the way to the opening. Is that bad?
“sounds to me like very loose rear shoes”
I will definitely ask about that!
also by shoes I meant rear shoes, all the brakes (edit: by that I mean the front brake pads and the rear shoes) were replaced when I got the front rotors and rear drums replaced. But I will ask if they are loose.
10-27-2021, 08:50 PM
#6
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Join Date: 01-23-2009
Location: Fredericksburg,VA
Posts: 24,801
Shops do not routinely ever even look at the rear brakes anymore. Unless it is on your invoice they didn't. Most don't know how to adjust them anymore.
You could check by pulling the E-brake up 3 clicks is good more is bad. But, be careful some places adjust the e-brake thinking it will adjust the brakes.
You could check by pulling the E-brake up 3 clicks is good more is bad. But, be careful some places adjust the e-brake thinking it will adjust the brakes.
10-28-2021, 12:44 PM
#10
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Thread Starter
Join Date: 08-29-2018
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 43
“Shops do not routinely ever even look at the rear brakes anymore. Unless it is on your invoice they didn't. Most don't know how to adjust them anymore.”
So I called the shop and his wife checked my invoices and she said that last time I was in they replaced my front brake pads and the rear brake shoes (I had specifically asked for that but I just called to double check), so I asked if that means they are adjusted correctly and she said yes. I can get them re-checked by a different shop which I will probably do just to be sure because I read about the shoe adjustment issue and it sounds like exactly what is happening!
“You could check by pulling the E-brake up 3 clicks is good more is bad. But, be careful some places adjust the e-brake thinking it will adjust the brakes.”
I parked, kept the brakes compressed, pulled the e-brake up 3 clicks and let go of the brake pedal and the car did not budge.
“Sometimes the caliper orings don’t work as designed.
the wheel cylinders are the hydraulic brake shoe actuators”
I put calipers and cylinders down in my notes to replace, but I looked it up and it said if those parts were bad there would be a leak and the fluid doesn’t seem to be leaking (or else it is a verrrrry slow leak) because is always super overly full when I check it. I am going to do it anyway because why not at this point…
Oh also I am on mobile, that is why I keep quotation marking things because I can’t see the reply button for specific people on my phone :)
So I called the shop and his wife checked my invoices and she said that last time I was in they replaced my front brake pads and the rear brake shoes (I had specifically asked for that but I just called to double check), so I asked if that means they are adjusted correctly and she said yes. I can get them re-checked by a different shop which I will probably do just to be sure because I read about the shoe adjustment issue and it sounds like exactly what is happening!
“You could check by pulling the E-brake up 3 clicks is good more is bad. But, be careful some places adjust the e-brake thinking it will adjust the brakes.”
I parked, kept the brakes compressed, pulled the e-brake up 3 clicks and let go of the brake pedal and the car did not budge.
“Sometimes the caliper orings don’t work as designed.
the wheel cylinders are the hydraulic brake shoe actuators”
I put calipers and cylinders down in my notes to replace, but I looked it up and it said if those parts were bad there would be a leak and the fluid doesn’t seem to be leaking (or else it is a verrrrry slow leak) because is always super overly full when I check it. I am going to do it anyway because why not at this point…
Oh also I am on mobile, that is why I keep quotation marking things because I can’t see the reply button for specific people on my phone :)