Transmission issue? or what?
11-19-2013, 10:43 PM
#12
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Join Date: 07-01-2013
Location: Ohio
Posts: 46
sorry for delay
Okay here is an update...
I went to autozone and had a guy try to pull the codes. I say try because he said his device will not read anything unless the check engine light is on.
Since the light is NOT on, there are no failures recognized.
Any suggestions to "pull" the codes? Are other places using the same device?
Also, the bad start problem is returning.
Previously, I made a post wondering if the air conditioner could cause the issue.
I have realized that I only used the air conditioner when it gets warm out.
It recently started to get warm again, (now that I moved back to Austin) and the bad start returned.
I have tried to be observant as possible and it seems to me that these issues might be temperature related. At least the bad start seems to begin when the outside temp gets above 70 degrees.
I haven't been able to connect the chuggle to temp yet, but these two may be related.
Quiz: What kind of sensor is temperature related, or affected, that would change the way the car starts, and the way its idles at a stop?
Could this be the MAF sensor as someone suggested earlier?
Thanks
I went to autozone and had a guy try to pull the codes. I say try because he said his device will not read anything unless the check engine light is on.
Since the light is NOT on, there are no failures recognized.
Any suggestions to "pull" the codes? Are other places using the same device?
Also, the bad start problem is returning.
Previously, I made a post wondering if the air conditioner could cause the issue.
I have realized that I only used the air conditioner when it gets warm out.
It recently started to get warm again, (now that I moved back to Austin) and the bad start returned.
I have tried to be observant as possible and it seems to me that these issues might be temperature related. At least the bad start seems to begin when the outside temp gets above 70 degrees.
I haven't been able to connect the chuggle to temp yet, but these two may be related.
Quiz: What kind of sensor is temperature related, or affected, that would change the way the car starts, and the way its idles at a stop?
Could this be the MAF sensor as someone suggested earlier?
Thanks
11-20-2013, 03:20 AM
#13
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Join Date: 04-09-2006
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 7,032
"Could this be the MAF sensor as someone suggested earlier?"
Yes - as per the first responder to your initial post. It is a possibility, and unless you actually start to take some action on the suggestions, you will never get anywhere. Not trying to be mean, just want to see you get some progress on getting the issue resolved.
It's an easy job to do (use the search tool at the top of the page for tips and hints on it) - just remember to never touch the actual sensor's business parts.
Give it a clean, and let us know how it runs afterwards.
Yes - as per the first responder to your initial post. It is a possibility, and unless you actually start to take some action on the suggestions, you will never get anywhere. Not trying to be mean, just want to see you get some progress on getting the issue resolved.
It's an easy job to do (use the search tool at the top of the page for tips and hints on it) - just remember to never touch the actual sensor's business parts.
Give it a clean, and let us know how it runs afterwards.
11-22-2013, 08:06 PM
#14
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Join Date: 07-01-2013
Location: Ohio
Posts: 46
you are right
Yes, you are right the first responder did mention the MAF, but I guess I focused on all the other suggestions first, ( tuned or not?, bad gas, solenoids, pull the codes, and my own observations) trying to eliminate the possibilities.
There is definitely a temperature related issue going on. Yesterday, it took two attempts, turning the key, to get it to start. Then a cold front rolled. Today it starts right up.
I will address the MAF this weekend.
Thank you
There is definitely a temperature related issue going on. Yesterday, it took two attempts, turning the key, to get it to start. Then a cold front rolled. Today it starts right up.
I will address the MAF this weekend.
Thank you
11-22-2013, 08:19 PM
#15
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Join Date: 07-01-2013
Location: Ohio
Posts: 46
And more...
I found this post that really helped me understand what is going.
Yes, I had to read through some things to find this, not a major deal, but in my humble opinion it might be good to make a sticky for that bit to make it easier to find.
posted by 843de:
I found this post that really helped me understand what is going.
Yes, I had to read through some things to find this, not a major deal, but in my humble opinion it might be good to make a sticky for that bit to make it easier to find.
posted by 843de:
The Mass Air Flow (MAF) sensor is integrated with the Intake Air Temperature (IAT) sensor. The MAF sensor is an air flow meter that measures the amount of air entering the engine. The Engine Control Module (ECM) uses the MAF sensor signal to provide the correct fuel delivery for all engine speeds and loads. A small quantity of air entering the engine indicates a deceleration or idle condition. A large quantity of air entering the engine indicates an acceleration or high load condition. The MAF/IAT sensor has the following circuits:
* An ignition 1 voltage circuit
* A ground circuit
* A MAF sensor signal circuit
* An IAT sensor signal circuit
* A low reference circuit
The ECM applies 5 volts to the MAF sensor on the MAF sensor signal circuit. The sensor uses the voltage to produce a frequency based on the inlet air flow through the sensor bore. The frequency varies in a range of near 1,700 Hertz at idle to near 9,500 Hertz at maximum engine load.
Now for the MAP sensors....
The Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) sensors measure the pressure inside the intake manifold. Pressure in the intake manifold is affected by engine speed, throttle opening, air temperature, and Barometric Pressure (BARO). A diaphragm within the MAP sensor is displaced by the pressure changes that occur from the varying load and operating conditions of the engine. The sensor translates this action into electrical resistance. The MAP sensor wiring includes 3 circuits. The Engine Control Module (ECM) supplies a regulated 5 volts to the sensor on a 5 volt reference circuit. The ECM supplies a ground on a low reference circuit. The MAP sensor provides a signal voltage to the ECM, relative to the pressure changes, on the MAP sensor signal circuit. The ECM converts the signal voltage input to a pressure value.
Under normal operation the greatest pressure that can exist in the intake manifold is equal to BARO. This occurs when the vehicle is operated at Wide Open Throttle (WOT) or when the ignition is ON while the engine is OFF. Under these conditions, the ECM uses the MAP sensor to determine the current BARO. The least manifold pressure occurs when the vehicle is idling or decelerating. MAP can range from 10 kPa, when pressures are less, to as great as 104 kPa, depending on the current BARO. The ECM monitors the MAP sensor signal for pressure outside of the normal range.
* An ignition 1 voltage circuit
* A ground circuit
* A MAF sensor signal circuit
* An IAT sensor signal circuit
* A low reference circuit
The ECM applies 5 volts to the MAF sensor on the MAF sensor signal circuit. The sensor uses the voltage to produce a frequency based on the inlet air flow through the sensor bore. The frequency varies in a range of near 1,700 Hertz at idle to near 9,500 Hertz at maximum engine load.
Now for the MAP sensors....
The Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) sensors measure the pressure inside the intake manifold. Pressure in the intake manifold is affected by engine speed, throttle opening, air temperature, and Barometric Pressure (BARO). A diaphragm within the MAP sensor is displaced by the pressure changes that occur from the varying load and operating conditions of the engine. The sensor translates this action into electrical resistance. The MAP sensor wiring includes 3 circuits. The Engine Control Module (ECM) supplies a regulated 5 volts to the sensor on a 5 volt reference circuit. The ECM supplies a ground on a low reference circuit. The MAP sensor provides a signal voltage to the ECM, relative to the pressure changes, on the MAP sensor signal circuit. The ECM converts the signal voltage input to a pressure value.
Under normal operation the greatest pressure that can exist in the intake manifold is equal to BARO. This occurs when the vehicle is operated at Wide Open Throttle (WOT) or when the ignition is ON while the engine is OFF. Under these conditions, the ECM uses the MAP sensor to determine the current BARO. The least manifold pressure occurs when the vehicle is idling or decelerating. MAP can range from 10 kPa, when pressures are less, to as great as 104 kPa, depending on the current BARO. The ECM monitors the MAP sensor signal for pressure outside of the normal range.
12-01-2013, 11:32 PM
#17
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Join Date: 07-01-2013
Location: Ohio
Posts: 46
maf replaced
Okay, I went and replaced the MAF sensor. This coincided with a cold front coming through and temps were below 60. For that reason I delayed my update until the temp went back up for observations.
Now, at first impression when I drove the car after replacing the MAF, it felt more zippy. Slightly stronger acceleration and shifting...slightly.
And starting? Well it started up in an instant. One click of the key, and bam, purring.
So the warm came back today, back above 68 deg., even just into 70. And guess what? The starting thing came back.
First, it struggles to start, but does on the first attempt. Then, I even had to do two starting attempts.
Aaaand, with the return of the temperature, I also noticed a return of the chuggle at the stop light.
This all may be my imagination, but these observations point me to something that is affected by the air temperature.
I am scratching my head, out of ideas.
Now, at first impression when I drove the car after replacing the MAF, it felt more zippy. Slightly stronger acceleration and shifting...slightly.
And starting? Well it started up in an instant. One click of the key, and bam, purring.
So the warm came back today, back above 68 deg., even just into 70. And guess what? The starting thing came back.
First, it struggles to start, but does on the first attempt. Then, I even had to do two starting attempts.
Aaaand, with the return of the temperature, I also noticed a return of the chuggle at the stop light.
This all may be my imagination, but these observations point me to something that is affected by the air temperature.
I am scratching my head, out of ideas.
12-02-2013, 12:21 AM
#18
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Thread Starter
Join Date: 07-01-2013
Location: Ohio
Posts: 46
one more idea
One more idea...
I found this on an autozone website about the MAP sensor:
Seems to describe my issues.
And further reading shows that the MAP sensor is affected by barometric pressure.
Aha!
I have been observing temperature, instead I should observe the BARO.
I looked at the past three days weather, and the lowest temp was 28 with a BARO of 30.46
and warming up to 50 and 60's, until today when it went to a high of 72 and BARO of 30.04
Currently is 61 but the BARO is dropping and is at 29.96
So right now, even if temp is down, I might expect starting issue if the MAP is the problem.
So perhaps the MAP? Or are there 2 of these?
I found this on an autozone website about the MAP sensor:
A defective manifold absolute pressure sensor may cause a rich or lean air/fuel ratio, excessive fuel consumption, and engine surging. this diagnosis applies to map sensors that produce an analog voltage signal
And further reading shows that the MAP sensor is affected by barometric pressure.
Aha!
I have been observing temperature, instead I should observe the BARO.
I looked at the past three days weather, and the lowest temp was 28 with a BARO of 30.46
and warming up to 50 and 60's, until today when it went to a high of 72 and BARO of 30.04
Currently is 61 but the BARO is dropping and is at 29.96
So right now, even if temp is down, I might expect starting issue if the MAP is the problem.
So perhaps the MAP? Or are there 2 of these?
12-02-2013, 11:35 AM
#19
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Join Date: 01-23-2009
Location: Fredericksburg,VA
Posts: 24,727
Also fits symptoms of bad Evap purge solenoid. That is easy to test, remove both hoses then blow through the solenoid, if it is wide open it acts like a vac leak. Warmer temps = more vapor in gas tank.
12-03-2013, 05:53 AM
#20
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Join Date: 12-24-2007
Location: Seville. OH
Posts: 2,873
there are a lot of things that can cause you problem. I would start checking things that can be tested easly like donbrew stated. I would also check the fuel pressure. you can rent a fuel pressure gauge from most part stores if you dont own one. with out doing tests and dignostics you can thow a lot of money and parts at this problem and still not fix it.