Ok, I read all the manufacturer disclaimers, how does this effect a brand new HHR, less than 10K, getting the rotor wobbles? I ran into a guy at a show who bought 2 HHR's nad both are having rotor problems before 10K, they both swore they will never buy an American car ever again, and the dealer is doing the denil thing "It must be the way you're driving it" I'd say there are too many posters here with the same problem to be a coincedence.

 

Nice!

Was raised with a grand parent that was a 35 year GM engineer.

Started working on cars at 10 years old. I could hook a car on a wrecker at 11 years old.

Two years high school auto.

Degree in Auto tech and Degree in business admin. Should have taken the ASE but decided I did not want to continue getting ditrty under the car when I could make better money in other automotive areas. I guess I had too many old mechanics tell me they wish they had done something else when they were young.

Either way I never had to apply for a job till I was well in my 30's since I kept getting better offers.

Worked 10+ years on cars. everything from tune up's to rebuilds.

Took some time off in repairing medical equipment. No mistakes can be made here.

Did some work for all the tire companies including making mock up tires for them.

Working 16 years with one of the largest automotive mail order firms in the world. There I deal with customer service and quality issues. I deal with vendors and customers first hand.

I also do a lot of internal work on high return rates with product. I belong on the board that investigates returns and quailty issues. We want to protect our good name and keep prices right so we make some hard demands of many of the companies. Some of them really hate us because we do not put up with their crap. Many of the changes they make are due to us. We are in many cases their largest customer and often sell more than half of their production. These are large well know companies So we get a lot of say in the product.

I could not count the continued training classes I have taken. I also get to work with some of the best tech people in the world. It is a bonus if you have an issue and know the people that can help by their first name.

It is a good comany and they have been very good to me. You also have the bonus of never knowing who you may have at your desk.

I know there are good and bad MFG out there. Most are good and have some very good people behind them. The bad usually die off in time. I have even caught a few trying to pull some crap on me and with my companies backing call their bluff.

I have been involved in Stock car racing., Drag Racing and Autocross. I have restored and showed cars for 30 years. Taken some national awards and made a few magazines along the way.

So product problem solving, tech and quality issues are my job and I have seen just about anything you can think of.

Bud I have nothing against you and appreciate your back ground.

The main thing here is we disagree on this. I want to back mine up with proven document facts. You want to show a lot of distrust for many companies. Some of it may be warranted... I don't know. I deal with many good companies and they have been their often when I need them to fix some major issues.

You and I in our statment show you need to keep learning to keep up. This is wise as you never will know it all a it keep changing.

All I know is I learned the truth on what most HHR owner complain about and no longer have brake issues. It is not magic just some good solid documented prinicples. I just want to share what I learend to solve other same issues like I had.

So we will just have to agree to disagree. Just understand we can disagree and still get along.

One thing we do agree on is emissions they can be a pain at times. Emission CARB approve parts are a pain in my line of work.

 

The brakes are not seated by the factory nor by the dealer.

I seated my new pads on my new cars and they work fine. My SS is over 10K with nary an issue. Did the same on the GTP and got over 62K miles with nary a wobble. Even with a wife that is hard on brakes.

You can look at any car web site and there are threads of warped rotors on all of them. Even the imports.

It is not coincedence as it is a common problem industy wide on most cars.

Some cars the compounds, weight, how it is driven etc have an effect on this. The main key is seating or bedding would eliminate 85% of it.

Like I have state in the past many treat the symptom and never really fix the problem. You can cut and replace the rotors [symptom] and never fix the real issue by seating them in properly [the real fix].

It is no coincedence that few people do not know how to bed their brakes and but continue to have issues.

 

I would still like to know what company this is, if you don't mind.

I never got into racing, I though about it, but time and $$$ just didn't match up. I did have a Mustang in the World of Wheels once, but that was way back in the early 80's. I did have a truck that was in the 2007 Full Size Chevy calendar for January, not a trophy, but I still have the calendar...

Yes, we can agree to disagree..... I don't use vendor sites for data on parts for ths most part, none will ever say the parts are bad, even the old Tornado & Turbonator said it was a fine product.... We all know what that was. I use information I've learned from instructors and mechanics I've dealth with in the past. And dealing with them, you quickly learn when they are honest, and when they are not. Something I'm sure you are familier with.

 

I toatally agree on the Tornado and other crap like that. Remember the old Split Fire Plugs?

With my job I am lucky to get to know many of the companies well and get to know many of the people first hand. Most are good and very good. Some I have had to nail to the wall because they are not what I would call honest.

Either way most are good and most engineering staffs we deal with will tell me more than we should know.

On the other hand I have had many long time mechanics many very good mechanics that just get lost on some topic's. One guy a ASE certified GM mechanic with over 25 years wanted to arguw he had a wrong crank for his engine. When I told him he had the right parts he was spitting mad. He was building a 383 Stocker small block.

He was upset that the crank was hitting the block. I asked if he clearanced the block and had the proper oil pan he said he did not have to do that?

I took the time to show him the longer stroke on the engine is where the extra CID was coming from. I explained that he was re engineering what GM had done and it is not the same. At that point I finally got him to understand and able to fix his problems. Nice guy but just needed some help to see what he was doing or needed to do.

I found a long time ago some mechanics are like DR's. Some are really good and some may have the certifications but should not be working on cars.

So it goes both ways with companies and mechanics.

I will PM you where I work as I want to keep them off the site and out of the debate. They do not advertise here so some get a little upset if I mention them.

I just hope you understand while we may disagree on some things we can still get a long. I don't mind a little debate as long as no one gets mad! I hope you can agree on this and I will return in kind.

 

PM sent.

 

Replied

 

Hyper,
thanks, I found all your response directly to the point, no innuendo's and backed by evidence, which is why I enjoy this site so much. I also truly appreciated you hand which you obviously extended to solman.
Even your presentation of credibility was thoughtful, precise and impressive.
I stand as a fan.
Thanks again,

 

Thanks!

Solman and I are good. We both have our points and have similar backgrounds. I also count him as a friend here!

I just used to have brake issues like many complain about and I found out what caused it and solved my issues. I just want to pass it along. Kind of like if you found the cure to cancer you would not keep it to yourself.

Now keep in mind there are other factors that can play in like pointed out by Solman so nothing is 100%. But odds are most of these issues could be solved with seating of the pads and a better understanding of what really causes problems like this.

Changing rotors or pads often will only fix the issue short term.

I learned the issues on my Sonoma I had. THey are know for the pulse issue and poor pad wear and squeeky brakes. I solved it on that vehicle and all my cars since.

But with anything mechanical anything can happen so beware.

No matter what Seating and bedding pad will only improve any installation and should be done. Besides it cost nothing to do it so what does anyone have to lose.

 

So now that I'm done reading three pages of you guys going back and forth, could you point me in the right direction about how to seat the pads/rotors properly?

I've turned my old rotors twice (as advised by some people who I probably shouldn't have listened to as it was a waste of time) and the vibration came back again....

I went ahead and bought some cross-drilled and slotted rotors as I've read on the pages of many brake companies' websites that they're very good with dissipating heat (as that's what I thought was causing it), and about a thousand miles later - the vibration is back... like someone said above, it's not pulsating all the times, it's some of the times, and sometimes it feels like it's not vibrating at all.

The vibration happens at various speeds - highway - very slow crawl, uphill, downhill... and then at other times it doesn't happen under pretty much the same exact conditions.... Is there a procedure I can do to seat the rotors/pads when they've been on the car for a while?

The rotors are from R1 Concepts and I do have one free replacement (even though they were genuinely surprised when they heard they warped) that I can use within a year of the original purchase... I got them in May, so I still have most of the year ahead of me, but I'd rather avoid sending rotors back and forth if they're truly not the issue. Thanks ahead!!!