I pulled the cover when I first got mine....sounded sweat as hell it lost 9hp and 12 ft/lb on the dyno though

 

AS I SAID, I OWN AND DRIVE THE CAR! I DON'T HAVE AN ARMCHAIR IN THE BACK OF MY HHR!

Who is this troll anyway?

 

You're clearly not referring to me. You attempted to lay claim that "documentation is subjective," which was intended to refute the validity of measured performance data (ala dyno, airflow meters, etc.). That's just plain silly. Nobody but you is going to take your anecdotal claims over hard data. So, to your original comment that "documentation is subjective," I reiterate... Less so than armchair quarterbacking and "butt dynos."

I've heard decades of the coffee shop talk over "3/4 race cam" and "I passed him so fast his door literally came open." That's all just noise. Show us some demonstrable evidence that your claims are accurate... not just that you own and drive the car. I own and drive my car, but that doesn't mean anything I claim must therefore be true. My car is red. That's easy... I can show you a picture and everybody will agree that it is indeed red. My car is faster because I rubbed down the bumper with Vaseline, which causes it to slip through the air faster. That's a little less believable, isn't it? However, if I showed up with wind tunnel tests that indicated this to be true, Unilever stock is going to go through the roof.

 

Its all about restrictions..Don't care how much its capable of filling,,,if the supply isn't there because something is restricting it willl not reach full potential....When you start making air turn corners and go up over and around obsticles its going to get restrictive from the tumbling and turbulance....thats why I said a straight shot is best....ever do headwork? Isn't the objective to make as straight a path as possible to the valve? Air is air no matter what its used for. Principles and physical limitations apply to all.
Anything beyond the turbo, the part thats under pressure doesn't care what the path is doing..but the path TO the turbo is more critical.... and "ram" air doesn't work tilll your at obscene speeds...it all works on air pressure not air speed at ground level.
You can actually "stall" out a turbo if there isn't enough air on the supply side....if youve ever worked on aircraft you'd know this...

 

You keep comparing peaches and shrimp. Try this... run down to your local Home Depot and buy a few dozen 45° and 90° PVC fitting (let's say, 1" ID just for fun). Now, glue them all together in the most obscenely "bent" way you can imagine. Now, cap one end and put Schrader valve with a gauge on the other end. Air it up to 30 psi. Assuming no leaks, how many psi is in ANY POINT of the piece? This is NOT a trick question... it's just a VERY easy one. Hint: 30.

Now, for your "control," take a piece of straight 1" ID PVC and put the same ends on as the other. Air it up to 30 psi. How much pressure is there at any point in the pipe? This is still not a trick question. Hint: It's 30 psi just like the other.

If you accept this very basic fact (if not, please refer to Boyle's Law, published in the early 1600's), you will agree that, in a closed system, air pressure and volume are irrevocably connected. You cannot increase volume without changing (decreasing) pressure, and you cannot increase pressure without changing (decreasing) volume. That is what the turbine is doing when it spins... it is taking a (relatively) large volume of air and cramming it into a smaller space. It is increasing pressure and reducing volume. So long as I can ENSURE that the inlet of that system has a sufficient VOLUME of air, the turbine will continue to compress it (in cycles-- because the engine is actually using up the air and expelling it. It's a closed system that keeps opening up, then closing again. Focus on the point where it's closed). If I can ensure that the inlet gets 5 gajillion cubic feet of air, it will never run out. It can be a laminar air flow or it can have high turbidity... it doesn't matter... so long as there is at least enough air to satisfy the demands of the turbine.

Another experiment for you to try. As you're driving down the road, breathe. How'd that go? Did you get enough air to function? OK, now roll down your window and try this experiment again. The air inside the car is now significantly more turbid. Are you having trouble breathing? No? So there was enough volume available in both cases for you to satisfy your breathing requirements... even though one was turbid and the other was stagnant.

If you want to prove this from the other direction, you'll need to restrict the amount of air you are taking into your lungs such that you get a little dizzy. Now, have someone give you mouth-to-mouth resuscitation. You'll find this to be very helpful, and soon you will (hopefully) recover. In this case, you didn't have enough air volume to supply the system, but you solved that problem by using a sufficient air volume to get the extra air you needed. For completeness, try the above experiment where the rescuer uses a straight hose and a bent hose. Which one resuscitated you more readily? They were the same because the pressure being put into the system was significantly more than the system had to start with. They were "turbocharging" your air intake until you got what you needed.


Almost invariably, no. But this is another matter... relating to fuel distribution, atomization, cylinder squish and quench, etc.


The best I can offer for aircraft credentials is a set of plastic wings a flight attendant gave me. You are describing the surge line, and yes, it's not a good place to be. However, in your own words, you've described the issue of volume again, which, when presented with an inadequate supply of air on the turbo inlet, you will indeed have problems. That says nothing about the laminarity or turbidity of that air... only the volume.



.

 

The condition known as turbo surge or stall occurs under heavy load conditions where boost pressures are elevated. The root cause is generally an imbalance of ensures between the turbine side and the compressor side of the turbo. When the forces on the turbine are no longer strong enough to drive the compressor side of the turbo adequately, stall occurs. Stall/surge is more of an exhaust issue not being able to overcome impeller side pressure issues. just cause you let more air in doesn't mean that the exhaust side can handle it.

land based! Air density issues at high altitudes are different!

 

Thanks XXL for the explanation. From your explanation could I derive that none of the air intake kits (K&N, Dejon, etc.) will be of any benefit? Most of them will be bringing in warmer air anyway.

 

XXL has been a respected member on this forum for a long time and generally knows what he is talking about. I have never considered him a troll.... Although there was one photo he submitted a while back.... :o)

As far as all of the aftermarket CAIs go, with the stock setup (including stage kit), there just isn't anything to be gained other than esthetic's and/or sound. With the stock turbo and IC piping the turbo simply cannot move any more air, GM did their homework on this one, thus a different air-box configuration will not provide any more power.
I personally have added or modified intakes in the past to gain looks or better sound without any real performance gains, does anyone remember flipping the lid of the old round air-cleaner covers over so it takes air in from the top instead of through the snorkel? Made that 4 barrel sound much better (placebo effect), but reduced power.
Anyway, if you are looking to mod the intake for the (valid) reason of better looks or sound, go for it. Just don't expect to get power gains.
As far as documentation goes, it's hard to argue with data, it's is easy to argue with opinions.

 

I would say a better flowing filter with the stock set up would gain the best performance to price ratio vs. a whole after market cai. Although the secret service cai looks like the air is sucked right from behind the headlight? I wonder if anyone used a dyno to see what gains they got from that particular cai vs. stock with a better flowing filter?

 

The best I can offer for aircraft credentials is a set of plastic wings a flight attendant gave me.

.[/QUOTE]

Thats great! above 5,000' I gather?