GM Stage Kit Installed!!!
12-17-2008, 11:49 AM
#51
Senior Member
Join Date: 12-09-2008
Location: Detroit Area
Posts: 224
I would like to clear something up about the sensors and the amount of boost readings. On an emission certified diagnostic compliant calibration the top, let's say 10% for discussion purposes, is reserved for diagnostics to determine if the sensor is working properly. The 2.7 bar production sensors technically could read to nearly 25 psig boost. I have personally seen on the stage kits over 23 pisg boost. At that level we were into the area of the sensor reserved for diagnostics. So for the kit to be an emission compliant 50 state certified package, the sensors needed to be changed. 3.0 bar sensors were available and that is what we used.
Bill
Bill
12-17-2008, 12:02 PM
#52
Senior Member
Join Date: 01-28-2008
Location: INDIANA
Posts: 355
I'm a little disappointed that the boost is similar to the numbers the rest of us are seeing, even with the wider sensor range. I know that the turbo is the major limitation, but still, a man can dream. I'm beginning to think that GM may have created this kit with the aftermarket in mind, including big turbo possibilities and further tuning.
Continuously Variable Valve Timing
Continuously variable valve timing (VVT) optimizes the 2.0L Turbo’s turbocharging system by adjusting valve timing at lower rpm for improved turbo response and more even torque delivery. Both the intake and exhaust cams have hydraulically operated vane-type phasers that are managed by a solenoid and directed by the engine control module (ECM). The phasers turn the camshaft relative to the drive sprocket, allowing intake and exhaust valve timing to be adjusted independently.
Cam phasing changes the timing of valve operation as conditions such as rpm and engine load vary. It allows an outstanding balance of smooth torque delivery over a broad rpm range, high specific output and good specific fuel consumption. Cam phasing also provides another effective tool for controlling exhaust emissions. Because it manages valve overlap at optimum levels, it eliminates the need for a separate exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) system. Variable valve timing can be even more valuable in turbocharged engine. The ECM can adjust valve overlap at low rpm to optimize turbo response, delivering a more immediate rush of acceleration-producing torque.
12-17-2008, 12:43 PM
#53
Senior Member
Join Date: 08-28-2008
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 542
I would like to clear something up about the sensors and the amount of boost readings. On an emission certified diagnostic compliant calibration the top, let's say 10% for discussion purposes, is reserved for diagnostics to determine if the sensor is working properly. The 2.7 bar production sensors technically could read to nearly 25 psig boost. I have personally seen on the stage kits over 23 pisg boost. At that level we were into the area of the sensor reserved for diagnostics. So for the kit to be an emission compliant 50 state certified package, the sensors needed to be changed. 3.0 bar sensors were available and that is what we used.
Bill
Bill
To my understanding, the ECU had to be reflashed to allow larger sensors to be used because the scaling in the tables wasn't large enough. That's why we couldn't just switch to larger sensors on our own, before the stage kit, I THINK?
If that's correct, what's the limit of the scaling in the ECU now? In other words, if I wanted to push more boost and still have some headroom on the MAP sensors as you have mentioned, could I go to even bigger sensors?
Don't forget there are other variables, such as Ignition Timing, Variable Valve timing, fuel, and other things that are controlled, and possibly modified by the new kit.
Continuously Variable Valve Timing
Continuously variable valve timing (VVT) optimizes the 2.0L Turbo’s turbocharging system by adjusting valve timing at lower rpm for improved turbo response and more even torque delivery. Both the intake and exhaust cams have hydraulically operated vane-type phasers that are managed by a solenoid and directed by the engine control module (ECM). The phasers turn the camshaft relative to the drive sprocket, allowing intake and exhaust valve timing to be adjusted independently.
Cam phasing changes the timing of valve operation as conditions such as rpm and engine load vary. It allows an outstanding balance of smooth torque delivery over a broad rpm range, high specific output and good specific fuel consumption. Cam phasing also provides another effective tool for controlling exhaust emissions. Because it manages valve overlap at optimum levels, it eliminates the need for a separate exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) system. Variable valve timing can be even more valuable in turbocharged engine. The ECM can adjust valve overlap at low rpm to optimize turbo response, delivering a more immediate rush of acceleration-producing torque.
Continuously Variable Valve Timing
Continuously variable valve timing (VVT) optimizes the 2.0L Turbo’s turbocharging system by adjusting valve timing at lower rpm for improved turbo response and more even torque delivery. Both the intake and exhaust cams have hydraulically operated vane-type phasers that are managed by a solenoid and directed by the engine control module (ECM). The phasers turn the camshaft relative to the drive sprocket, allowing intake and exhaust valve timing to be adjusted independently.
Cam phasing changes the timing of valve operation as conditions such as rpm and engine load vary. It allows an outstanding balance of smooth torque delivery over a broad rpm range, high specific output and good specific fuel consumption. Cam phasing also provides another effective tool for controlling exhaust emissions. Because it manages valve overlap at optimum levels, it eliminates the need for a separate exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) system. Variable valve timing can be even more valuable in turbocharged engine. The ECM can adjust valve overlap at low rpm to optimize turbo response, delivering a more immediate rush of acceleration-producing torque.
LMFAO
12-17-2008, 07:19 PM
#58
Senior Member
Join Date: 03-16-2008
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 662
Ok. I.ve cooled down enough to speak. The labor time is wrong!!! If you guys get charged an hour, good for you. I spent 5 hours doing my own car and atleast 2 of that was on the phone wth techline. Before I go any further, let me say, I'm pleased with the results. Getting 15lb boost instead of 7-8 at 40 degrees. I know that's low but I think the problem lies in the wastegate rod that got adjusted (by accident). Now. the instructions are for the Solstice, with the HHR mentioned. The wiring placement for the new sensors are wrong for the psi sensor in the outlet pipe. They cross the 5Vref and GRD wires. Then the guy at Techline left me on hold for over an hour and came back with nothing but we'll look into it. Finally got the number I needed and got it working after made wire repair. The lower sensor is not easy thing to get to either. Had to remove the lower pipe to fix. When I got the pipe off I found that the new sensor was not mounted properly in the hole. You can't see this when you install it I promice you. If you get a GM upgrade, demand the lower pipe to be removed and create a notch in the mounting to accept the new sensor. I think that that sensor will deffinately blow off when under full boost with more tuning. A major issue. If any one here is installing the kit themselves or a tech is doing it, please check this out and maybe chime in. I will be doing another kit next weekend and plan on bending that guy over for the labor!!! Just kiddin Eric. Maybe. I now know what needs to be done,but others may not. I'm sorry if this seams like a ***** session, but I'm a GM certified master tech in every area and Ifirmly do not believe that an hour is enough. I may have had a bad experience, but I dont think so..
Now that it's successfully completed, could you give a simple step-by-step that would be helpful for a GM tech who has only the included Solstice instructions? If the required wiring differs from the instructions, that's pretty serious business.
12-17-2008, 10:48 PM
#60
Senior Member
Join Date: 07-16-2008
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 184
Yes Mike I can. First off the instructions have left one point out that Bill informed me on. His quote: "Also, I did verify that we left out the statement that the sensor in the inlet tube needs to be trimed with a razer knife in the area that will interfere with the anti-rotation rib on the HHR (Solstice does not have this)." End quote. Install the map sensor is easy. I don't have the instructions at my fingertips,but I have DOC#'s. The orange/black wire for the map, They say it has a different color. That issue is easlily fixed be elimination of wires. The next step is the intake air psi and temp sensor on the lower pipe. the pitures on the instructions are showing the Solstice. But you can raise it on a lift and find it. On mine, when it was all said and done that pipe was completely out. The wiring issue can be summed up with two doc#s. HHr # is 1910765. This shows that the tan wire is the 5vref and the grey wire is the grd. The instructions say, and I've been told by the engineer over the phone that all the "pin terminals" are correct for both. Now pull up doc# 1913913 for the Pontiac. you will find that the map and intake psi sonsor share the 5vref and grd. Not so on the HHR. Also the gre wire is the 5vref and the tan is the grd. Now when hooked up in this way, the engine will not start. The ecm is seeing 20in of vac with key on or crank. Atleast that is what the gauge is telling me. So, I pulled up the schmatics on both and found the differences. Pulled the sensor off along with the pipe and swapped the grey and tan wires. It started immediatly. Now that is when I noticed the sensor not fitting flat. I ground a notch in the pipe for the extra plastic to sit and let the sensor be flat. Also they give you a metal screw to use to secure it. i used a screw that you will find holding evap cases together that is ment to secure into plastic not metal. I personally think it holds better. But What bill told me is to use a razor blade and cut the back notch off the sensor. That will probably work better unless you want to spend a few extra minutes pulling the pipe out. I recommend the razor blade idea. Then the programming. I talked to a guy at GM techline and did not have a good experience. I was also trying to finish this up on my lunch hour and was not sucessful. From what I hear on this site, I was the only one with issues on all levels of the install. Maybe someone else can chime in and give you something I left out. If you go into SPS with the MDI, you cant program the ecm using the VCI #. It doesnt have that option. Also when you program the ecm, you are also programming the ebcm. I went into the tcm to install the VCI. that seemed to work. After that, the car sstarted and was getting up to 15lb of boost. Took it to lunch today and did alittle showing off with the other techs and saw uppwards of 18-20. So, I'm impressed with this setup. Now I'll measure the fuel mpg and make sure I'm still getting good #'s. Check out those doc#'s Mike. Let us know the results. Thanks
Jared
Jared