PPC Tuners are ready for HHR!
Thread Starter
Former Sponsor
Joined: 11-15-2007
Posts: 282
From: Yorkville, IL
Some "pre-sales" questions for ecoboost...
1) Might you be Bill, Jr? If not, who are you and what's your role with HR?
2) For the tune, I understand your desire to marry the product to the vehicle, and assume you write back the VIN or other identifying number on first read. What happens if the user has to replace a bad or crash damaged ECM? How does he get the programmer to unmarry to the old unit and re-marry to the new one? Or is he out $1k?
3) Your web site indicates the programmer can get upgraded maps via download. So... when I go beyond a stock motor + flash, and add bigger injectors or a bigger turbo, etc., I'm ASSuming I can get prettier maps via download. Is that something that you'll offer the user free (assuming we're sticking with HR "stage xx" type of upgrades? Ex: I add your T3 turbo (or whatever)... will you provide an appropriate tune download to go with it? Or... are the tune maps adaptive enough to deal with other mods such that adding a bigger turbo doesn't just put me in a lean condition?
4) What parameters does the Ecotec use for mapping fuel curves? MAPS, TPS, speed/rpm???
5) Whoops... one more... you offer the BOV in recirculating and venting versions. You mention that some enginee management systems expect to see the recirculation of that pressure. What about the Ecotecs in the HHR? I'd much prefer the venting version... but don't want to freak out the computer because of it.
6) There is no #6... yet
I decided to ask these here as others are likely interested in the information as well. I'm getting close to pulling the trigger on a tune, but want to make sure I have an additional upgrade path without re-spending a lot of money.
Thanks in advance.
1) Might you be Bill, Jr? If not, who are you and what's your role with HR?
2) For the tune, I understand your desire to marry the product to the vehicle, and assume you write back the VIN or other identifying number on first read. What happens if the user has to replace a bad or crash damaged ECM? How does he get the programmer to unmarry to the old unit and re-marry to the new one? Or is he out $1k?
3) Your web site indicates the programmer can get upgraded maps via download. So... when I go beyond a stock motor + flash, and add bigger injectors or a bigger turbo, etc., I'm ASSuming I can get prettier maps via download. Is that something that you'll offer the user free (assuming we're sticking with HR "stage xx" type of upgrades? Ex: I add your T3 turbo (or whatever)... will you provide an appropriate tune download to go with it? Or... are the tune maps adaptive enough to deal with other mods such that adding a bigger turbo doesn't just put me in a lean condition?
4) What parameters does the Ecotec use for mapping fuel curves? MAPS, TPS, speed/rpm???
5) Whoops... one more... you offer the BOV in recirculating and venting versions. You mention that some enginee management systems expect to see the recirculation of that pressure. What about the Ecotecs in the HHR? I'd much prefer the venting version... but don't want to freak out the computer because of it.
6) There is no #6... yet
I decided to ask these here as others are likely interested in the information as well. I'm getting close to pulling the trigger on a tune, but want to make sure I have an additional upgrade path without re-spending a lot of money.
Thanks in advance.
1) I am indeed the Bill Hahn Jr. you refer to. Howdy!
2) The Tuner is married to the VIN. As long as the car isn't destroyed, even a new PCM would be loaded with the same VIN. If a car does get totaled...well, we've not had to cross that bridge yet, thankfully! But I daresay that with proper documentation, even this won't be a problem.
3) The Stage I Tune, as supplied, is calibrated to work with an otherwise stock vehicle. We've learned that it is tolerant of simple bolt ons like exhaust and intercooler upgrades. For big power later on, such as a larger turbo, we are developing tunes and ancillary equipment that will allow the retention of the Tuner.
4) The LNF Ecotec looks at literally dozens of factors to arrive at the final injector pulse width. While it is primarily a MAF-based system, there's considerably more going on 'behind the scenes'.
5) Recirculating is the way to go with LNF, and may remain so. It's not as 'swooshy', but the airflow calculations are so meticulous that I do not see an open discharge valve suiting it.
6) Non-answer.
Thanks for your interest!
Last edited by EcoBoost; May 28, 2008 at 10:54 PM. Reason: re-reading my own posts reveals typos and egotism
Senior Member
Joined: 02-07-2008
Posts: 826
From: Lakenheath, UK
i like the things i see in answer #3 
. any idea til the rest of us may have an opportunity for the exhaust and intercooler upgrades you mention, or any other "bolt ons" you may be working on? i hate these dumb black pipes for our intercooler piping, and would really like some nice looking pipes. i'm trying to keep myself from spending too much on this car for now, and the piping would be as much visual as anything else, and that's my justification for it lol 
. any idea til the rest of us may have an opportunity for the exhaust and intercooler upgrades you mention, or any other "bolt ons" you may be working on? i hate these dumb black pipes for our intercooler piping, and would really like some nice looking pipes. i'm trying to keep myself from spending too much on this car for now, and the piping would be as much visual as anything else, and that's my justification for it lol
Senior Member
Joined: 05-06-2008
Posts: 1,076
From: Over here
Thanks, Bill, for the detailed responses... BTW, we spent a LOT of time on the phone together many years ago working through some pieces of my milti-stage EFI turbo bike... back when blow-through turbos were the only thing around, I was putting together a "real" system for my drag bike. You were very helpful in getting me some of the pieces and parts to make it happen. Sadly, for what I spent in money alone, today, I could by a trailer full of Hayabusas that are almost as fast straight from the factory 
Given your answers above, I'm about ready to pull the trigger on the programmer. Are they in stock and ready to ship? If so, I'll probably call next week to order.
Given your answers above, I'm about ready to pull the trigger on the programmer. Are they in stock and ready to ship? If so, I'll probably call next week to order.
Thread Starter
Former Sponsor
Joined: 11-15-2007
Posts: 282
From: Yorkville, IL
i like the things i see in answer #3 . any idea til the rest of us may have an opportunity for the exhaust and intercooler upgrades you mention, or any other "bolt ons" you may be working on? i hate these dumb black pipes for our intercooler piping, and would really like some nice looking pipes. i'm trying to keep myself from spending too much on this car for now, and the piping would be as much visual as anything else, and that's my justification for it lol
. any idea til the rest of us may have an opportunity for the exhaust and intercooler upgrades you mention, or any other "bolt ons" you may be working on? i hate these dumb black pipes for our intercooler piping, and would really like some nice looking pipes. i'm trying to keep myself from spending too much on this car for now, and the piping would be as much visual as anything else, and that's my justification for it lol
Thread Starter
Former Sponsor
Joined: 11-15-2007
Posts: 282
From: Yorkville, IL
Thanks, Bill, for the detailed responses... BTW, we spent a LOT of time on the phone together many years ago working through some pieces of my milti-stage EFI turbo bike... back when blow-through turbos were the only thing around, I was putting together a "real" system for my drag bike. You were very helpful in getting me some of the pieces and parts to make it happen. Sadly, for what I spent in money alone, today, I could by a trailer full of Hayabusas that are almost as fast straight from the factory
Given your answers above, I'm about ready to pull the trigger on the programmer. Are they in stock and ready to ship? If so, I'll probably call next week to order.
Given your answers above, I'm about ready to pull the trigger on the programmer. Are they in stock and ready to ship? If so, I'll probably call next week to order.
Yes, always in stock and ready to rock.
Senior Member
Joined: 11-27-2007
Posts: 1,115
From: Austin, Texas
Another point for anyone who is curious, the MPG seems unaffected for normal commuting speeds. I have also come to the conclusion that it will be wise to return to the stock tune for wet weather. One more reference, on a nearby private road, there is a point from the driveway entrance where spirited driving but not dragstrip launches would previously yield 80 mph. That same point, with the same driving technique is now 102 mph. So we are not talking about just a mild incremental improvement here. This tune is awesome, and I can't imagine anyone will be disappointed with it. (Stage 1 tune, 93 octane).
Senior Member
Joined: 05-06-2008
Posts: 1,076
From: Over here
Ah, I knew there'd be a question #6 for Bill... Does the tune automatically adjust for lower octane fuel? Or... will I need to be concerned about detonation and warm weather 'spirited' driving? I'm a recent transplant to CA, and have yet to find anything better than 91.
Senior Member
Joined: 11-24-2007
Posts: 347
From: Springfield MO
Yes the ecu will still adjust for lower grade fuels and hot weather....and trust me this thing is a beast when you tune it....the best bang for the buck by far...mine put down 328ft/lb and 272.5hp at the wheels....thats some were in the 300hp and 380ft/lb at the crank.
Thread Starter
Former Sponsor
Joined: 11-15-2007
Posts: 282
From: Yorkville, IL
Cali fuels can be a challenge, but we've had great success there so far. Should be no problem!
New Member
Joined: 05-19-2008
Posts: 24
From: fontana, ca
Yes the ecu will still adjust for lower grade fuels and hot weather....and trust me this thing is a beast when you tune it....the best bang for the buck by far...mine put down 328ft/lb and 272.5hp at the wheels....thats some were in the 300hp and 380ft/lb at the crank.