What size sway bar links?
05-20-2011, 06:38 PM
#23
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Of course my original question never got an answer. To Whit: what difference does it make? Specifically why would we care what length they are, what are the handling considerations?
I already found out that 12 inch fits where a 10 inch used to be. But, I still don't know why I should care about the length.
Sorry, this could easily move into a Penthouse letter, one more beer.
I already found out that 12 inch fits where a 10 inch used to be. But, I still don't know why I should care about the length.
Sorry, this could easily move into a Penthouse letter, one more beer.
05-20-2011, 09:33 PM
#24
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I keep reading veiled statements like "you performance guys know already" that's from the guy that sells the adjustable links. I am not a performance guy. I also read statements alluding to different ride characteristics related to sway bar link length, but no specifics.
By definition the sway bar is always in a neutral position and is by design always working against itself! It is freely rotating in it's rubber bushing, it is not axially locked just gripped , the mounting bushings simply keep it from relocating it's center while permitting it to rotate/flex.
I notice MrsDlvrnit has after market sway bars, how did she calculate the correct length for the new links? She certainly did not just go with the "stock" length that came on her, since the bar has a different character from the OEM bar (different bends,different flex rate,different deflection, etc.), or she would not have replaced it, right? I would hope that if you replace the OEM parts you would have a reason other than "showing the brand", so why replace the bar, but not the link (length)(I did note she also got new adjustable links). Why would anyone want/need adjustable links?
I have replaced the old 10 inch links with 12 inch, the do not touch anything, even when bouncing over speed bumps, so it is not like putting a 1/4 inch bolt in a 3/8 inch hole. The links are not the type with washer and bushing connections, they are ball & socket type, so why would any of the bushings wear more quickly?
The question still stands, why would even 3/8 inch in link length make any difference to the car or the driver? I am just trying to hear a real reason to care one way or another.
:banannadance :
By definition the sway bar is always in a neutral position and is by design always working against itself! It is freely rotating in it's rubber bushing, it is not axially locked just gripped , the mounting bushings simply keep it from relocating it's center while permitting it to rotate/flex.
I notice MrsDlvrnit has after market sway bars, how did she calculate the correct length for the new links? She certainly did not just go with the "stock" length that came on her, since the bar has a different character from the OEM bar (different bends,different flex rate,different deflection, etc.), or she would not have replaced it, right? I would hope that if you replace the OEM parts you would have a reason other than "showing the brand", so why replace the bar, but not the link (length)(I did note she also got new adjustable links). Why would anyone want/need adjustable links?
I have replaced the old 10 inch links with 12 inch, the do not touch anything, even when bouncing over speed bumps, so it is not like putting a 1/4 inch bolt in a 3/8 inch hole. The links are not the type with washer and bushing connections, they are ball & socket type, so why would any of the bushings wear more quickly?
The question still stands, why would even 3/8 inch in link length make any difference to the car or the driver? I am just trying to hear a real reason to care one way or another.
:banannadance :
05-20-2011, 10:36 PM
#25
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Well I can look at it and see that the bar does not bend, because both links are the same length. It's geometry, when one side moves up/down the bar flexes at an engineered rate to force the other side to follow at an engineered rate. When you remove both links at the same time, the sway bar rotates down by gravity. If you were to install adjustable links and set one side longer than the other the joints would no longer be parallel and the bar would then be pre-loaded. Neutral implies a non-loaded system, is that what you mean?
Why do some HHR's come with 10" and some with 12". BTW, I see DLVRNIT has basically been upgraded to a SS suspension, from what I can tell SS (FE3) has 12" links.
But, it's okay to replace the entire sway bar and keep the original length links, with no explanation or engineering? I am NOT trying to fight, just get an answer other than GM knows best except when I think I know better.
OK, so to simplify. Why did DLVRNIT want a new sway bar. Is there a performance issue, I don't know, that's why I ask, I seek information. "That's the way I want it" is not exactly a reason (except from my Mom, and she's dead).
Why do some HHR's come with 10" and some with 12". BTW, I see DLVRNIT has basically been upgraded to a SS suspension, from what I can tell SS (FE3) has 12" links.
But, it's okay to replace the entire sway bar and keep the original length links, with no explanation or engineering? I am NOT trying to fight, just get an answer other than GM knows best except when I think I know better.
OK, so to simplify. Why did DLVRNIT want a new sway bar. Is there a performance issue, I don't know, that's why I ask, I seek information. "That's the way I want it" is not exactly a reason (except from my Mom, and she's dead).
05-20-2011, 11:20 PM
#26
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Dear donbrev.
I feel my guilt. Involuntarily, I switch public attention from your question to my question. Forgive me for it
I think we're unlikely to give detailed answers on this site.
Of course, the guys deserve a big thanks. They are sincerely trying to help. Fraternal spirit prevails here - great value.
But the question of length of links .. I am afraid that the answer is in the area of specific knowledge. Simple user (for example, you and I) are unlikely to have a detailed understanding of all processes. Not enough to be an engineer - mechanic, must have knowledge of the strength of materials, aerodynamics, and God knows what.
Somewhere online I've seen sites. There are professionals provide advice to users. If not mistaken, the GM also has a similar site. I speak English badly, but you can ask questions there. After tell.
I feel my guilt. Involuntarily, I switch public attention from your question to my question. Forgive me for it
I think we're unlikely to give detailed answers on this site.
Of course, the guys deserve a big thanks. They are sincerely trying to help. Fraternal spirit prevails here - great value.
But the question of length of links .. I am afraid that the answer is in the area of specific knowledge. Simple user (for example, you and I) are unlikely to have a detailed understanding of all processes. Not enough to be an engineer - mechanic, must have knowledge of the strength of materials, aerodynamics, and God knows what.
Somewhere online I've seen sites. There are professionals provide advice to users. If not mistaken, the GM also has a similar site. I speak English badly, but you can ask questions there. After tell.
05-21-2011, 05:44 AM
#27
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Join Date: 03-06-2010
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"Why do some HHR's come with 10" and some with 12". BTW, I see DLVRNIT has basically been upgraded to a SS suspension, from what I can tell SS (FE3) has 12" links. "
FE3 is the 2LT suspension... SS is FE5. (not to add to the confusion, just clarifying) I have a 2LT but haven't measured mine. It's possible though that part of the upgrade frome FE1 to FE3, besides different shock/strut rates (springs are the same) is a longer sway bar link...... Or maybe only the SS has the longer link, but I would think that wouldn't show in an "auto parts place" search without specifying "SS"
FE3 is the 2LT suspension... SS is FE5. (not to add to the confusion, just clarifying) I have a 2LT but haven't measured mine. It's possible though that part of the upgrade frome FE1 to FE3, besides different shock/strut rates (springs are the same) is a longer sway bar link...... Or maybe only the SS has the longer link, but I would think that wouldn't show in an "auto parts place" search without specifying "SS"
05-21-2011, 03:52 PM
#28
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"Why do some HHR's come with 10" and some with 12". BTW, I see DLVRNIT has basically been upgraded to a SS suspension, from what I can tell SS (FE3) has 12" links. "
FE3 is the 2LT suspension... SS is FE5. (not to add to the confusion, just clarifying) I have a 2LT but haven't measured mine. It's possible though that part of the upgrade frome FE1 to FE3, besides different shock/strut rates (springs are the same) is a longer sway bar link...... Or maybe only the SS has the longer link, but I would think that wouldn't show in an "auto parts place" search without specifying "SS"
FE3 is the 2LT suspension... SS is FE5. (not to add to the confusion, just clarifying) I have a 2LT but haven't measured mine. It's possible though that part of the upgrade frome FE1 to FE3, besides different shock/strut rates (springs are the same) is a longer sway bar link...... Or maybe only the SS has the longer link, but I would think that wouldn't show in an "auto parts place" search without specifying "SS"
05-22-2011, 12:01 PM
#30
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Measured my "sway bar link" - 10 inches.
But I have a need for a council of veteran repairmen:
As I said earlier, HHR in Russia - an exotic beast. Parts i'm ordered in the U.S., they are simply not in Russia.
I learned apply Some parts from other cars.
For example, brake pads Lexus RX-300 is almost the same and well lived on the HHR. The temperature sensor of the Chevrolet Captiva. There are other examples.
The use of "foreign" parts saves me time and time = money.
And so ... I see for sale "sway bar link" from the Camry. They are almost identical to the native HHR. The difference - a little longer, 10.2 inches! Cars similar the weight and dynamic characteristics. And I can buy them now! And costs $ 33 apiece. I win 1 month and $ 50 for postage.
What do you say, guys? To buy or not?
But I have a need for a council of veteran repairmen:
As I said earlier, HHR in Russia - an exotic beast. Parts i'm ordered in the U.S., they are simply not in Russia.
I learned apply Some parts from other cars.
For example, brake pads Lexus RX-300 is almost the same and well lived on the HHR. The temperature sensor of the Chevrolet Captiva. There are other examples.
The use of "foreign" parts saves me time and time = money.
And so ... I see for sale "sway bar link" from the Camry. They are almost identical to the native HHR. The difference - a little longer, 10.2 inches! Cars similar the weight and dynamic characteristics. And I can buy them now! And costs $ 33 apiece. I win 1 month and $ 50 for postage.
What do you say, guys? To buy or not?