End of ethanol subsidy
01-05-2012, 12:50 PM
#11
Platinum Member
Join Date: 05-09-2006
Location: "Upland" Mesa, Arizona
Posts: 6,805
I know several on here that state they have no ethanol in their gas in their area. I've asked in the past what they were using as an octane enhancer, but I don't remember anyone ever finding out exactly what was in their gas.
I don't have a problem with ethanol, I wish mine would run on E85, if it did, I'd use it as often as I could for my own reasons.
I don't have a problem with ethanol, I wish mine would run on E85, if it did, I'd use it as often as I could for my own reasons.
I think you're confusing my point. I'm not speaking of ethanol as an octane booster. I'm told, there is several products that can do this. The issue is the environmental "burning" qualities of gasoline. Ethanol is the oxygenate in current gasoline products, which as I said, replaced MTBE.
The "bi product" of using ethanol is a contribution to cleaner air AND a cheap way (currently) to raise octane levels.
The members who stated they buy "pure" gas without ethanol are BASICALLY correct. They are NOT buying E10 or E15 or whatever. But the "clean air" products that the federal government MANDATES FOR EVERY OUNCE OF GASOLINE SOLD IN THIS COUNTRY, contains a VERY SMALL portion of ethanol...probably less than a 1/2 % overall. This is among other additives that are supposed to keep an engine clean and provide less pollution.
And if you, or any one else is interested, here is a link to a website that has locations of non ethanol stations.
http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=AZ
Last edited by Snoopy; 01-05-2012 at 01:18 PM. Reason: forgot to post link
01-05-2012, 01:09 PM
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: 07-17-2006
Location: Dallas, GA
Posts: 6,050
Solman.....
I think you're confusing my point. I'm not speaking of ethanol as an octane booster. I'm told, there is several products that can do this. The issue is the environmental "burning" qualities of gasoline. Ethanol is the oxygenate in current gasoline products, which as I said, replaced MTBE.
The "bi product" of using ethanol is a contribution to cleaner air AND a cheap way (currently) to raise octane levels.
The members who stated they buy "pure" gas without ethanol are BASICALLY correct. They are NOT buying E10 or E15 or whatever. But the "clean air" products that the federal government MANDATES FOR EVERY OUNCE OF GASOLINE SOLD IN THIS COUNTRY, contains a VERY SMALL portion of ethanol...probably less than a 1/2 % overall. This is among other additives that are supposed to keep an engine clean and provide less pollution.
And if you, or any one else is interested, here is a link to a website that has locations of non ethanol stations.
I think you're confusing my point. I'm not speaking of ethanol as an octane booster. I'm told, there is several products that can do this. The issue is the environmental "burning" qualities of gasoline. Ethanol is the oxygenate in current gasoline products, which as I said, replaced MTBE.
The "bi product" of using ethanol is a contribution to cleaner air AND a cheap way (currently) to raise octane levels.
The members who stated they buy "pure" gas without ethanol are BASICALLY correct. They are NOT buying E10 or E15 or whatever. But the "clean air" products that the federal government MANDATES FOR EVERY OUNCE OF GASOLINE SOLD IN THIS COUNTRY, contains a VERY SMALL portion of ethanol...probably less than a 1/2 % overall. This is among other additives that are supposed to keep an engine clean and provide less pollution.
And if you, or any one else is interested, here is a link to a website that has locations of non ethanol stations.
I'm sure there are other methods used for octane enhancers, I have simple asked those they have so called E0, what was being used in their area. E10 is mandated in my state, so no link to stations with E0 is needed. Plus with the information I get in abundunce from my agency from DOE, I know where those stations are anyway....
01-05-2012, 02:55 PM
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: 06-21-2006
Location: Calgary
Posts: 939
Well, I think we are talking about the same thing, MTBE was used as an octane enhancer when lead was removed from gas. MTBE was replaced with ethanol when they "discovered" (term used loosly) MTBE was so harmful. Ethanol is a clean"er" burning fuel. It's also nothing new as there have been those for decades that used it in vehicles....
I'm sure there are other methods used for octane enhancers, I have simple asked those they have so called E0, what was being used in their area. E10 is mandated in my state, so no link to stations with E0 is needed. Plus with the information I get in abundunce from my agency from DOE, I know where those stations are anyway....
I'm sure there are other methods used for octane enhancers, I have simple asked those they have so called E0, what was being used in their area. E10 is mandated in my state, so no link to stations with E0 is needed. Plus with the information I get in abundunce from my agency from DOE, I know where those stations are anyway....
Because our ethanol mandate is based on fuel volume it allows for higher grade fuels to contain no ethanol because the bulk of fuel purchases is regular grade which usually has up to 10% ethanol in order to obtain the overall average of 5% by volume.
01-07-2012, 08:06 AM
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: 08-05-2009
Location: Cahokia IL
Posts: 358
Taking these reports with a grain of salt hardly even covers it. Its the media reporting statistics, and you know what they say about statistics. There are so many factors involved that any one isn't all that significant. Put them together and you have a mess.
The first article only lightly touches on how much corn is sold by the US to China, and the second article doesn't mention it all. Last I heard a significant portion of US corn and other grains are sold to China. Dig deeper. There is a lot more to this issue than a couple of biased articles will point out. There is far too much false propaganda being spewed out on both sides of the debate to come to a personal opinion without really looking past all this and finding the real facts.
The other thing that I NEVER see discussed in any of these articles is the fact that that US farms are only producing a fraction of the corn they are capable of. Many farmers are paid to NOT grow certain crops including corn. Further, crops that are dedicated to Ethanol production are growing corn normally used for animal feed. If these farmers were not growing for Ethanol, they would be growing another not-for-human consumption crop. The World Health Organization has stated in the past that with only minor adjustments in modern agricultural methods, we could easily feed up to 9 times the current world population. What does all this mean to this discussion? One thing we can conclude from that statement is that bio fuels like Ethanol wouldn't even dent the needed food supply. The other is that its simply not the production of Ethanol that's causing price issues. Its greed. In other words blames those that are lining their pockets, not those with ideas on reducing dependance on foreign oil sources.
The first article only lightly touches on how much corn is sold by the US to China, and the second article doesn't mention it all. Last I heard a significant portion of US corn and other grains are sold to China. Dig deeper. There is a lot more to this issue than a couple of biased articles will point out. There is far too much false propaganda being spewed out on both sides of the debate to come to a personal opinion without really looking past all this and finding the real facts.
The other thing that I NEVER see discussed in any of these articles is the fact that that US farms are only producing a fraction of the corn they are capable of. Many farmers are paid to NOT grow certain crops including corn. Further, crops that are dedicated to Ethanol production are growing corn normally used for animal feed. If these farmers were not growing for Ethanol, they would be growing another not-for-human consumption crop. The World Health Organization has stated in the past that with only minor adjustments in modern agricultural methods, we could easily feed up to 9 times the current world population. What does all this mean to this discussion? One thing we can conclude from that statement is that bio fuels like Ethanol wouldn't even dent the needed food supply. The other is that its simply not the production of Ethanol that's causing price issues. Its greed. In other words blames those that are lining their pockets, not those with ideas on reducing dependance on foreign oil sources.
You are correct in that it's way more complicated than this. We'd need to get into how the commodity market works, but IMHO ALL farm subsidies should end! In the real world all of them will not.
You mention greed as a factor. Greed is the motivation to improve ones position in life. Without that motivation we'd all still be living in caves!
If all the arable land in the US were used for crops farmers and corporations could make no profit. Wildlife habitat would disappear. With the motivation of profit no one would do the work!
01-07-2012, 01:40 PM
#15
Platinum Member
Join Date: 05-09-2006
Location: "Upland" Mesa, Arizona
Posts: 6,805
Some truth to the above statements.....
I have a relative in Indiana who has almost 2000 acres of planted corn. He changed from a food crop corn to a ethanol corn because of the financial gain. However, he was also allowed, since it's now NOT a food crop to use other types of fertilizers and pesticides. This increased his yield per acre by something like 30 bushels, if I remember correctly.
Now I can't tell you the exact specifics....I'm not a farmer. But you may have seen news clips of him and others in the Reynolds area of Indiana. The town is going totally to an ethanol powered area.
Tominator......
I do remember seeing news clips of some 3rd world countries having demonstrations and moderate riots over the cost of corn. I think it was back toward summer of last year. Several of the demonstrators were carrying signs with illustrations of corn and wording in the language of whatever country. So I tend to believe the corn issue has caused some turmoil.
I have a relative in Indiana who has almost 2000 acres of planted corn. He changed from a food crop corn to a ethanol corn because of the financial gain. However, he was also allowed, since it's now NOT a food crop to use other types of fertilizers and pesticides. This increased his yield per acre by something like 30 bushels, if I remember correctly.
Now I can't tell you the exact specifics....I'm not a farmer. But you may have seen news clips of him and others in the Reynolds area of Indiana. The town is going totally to an ethanol powered area.
Tominator......
I do remember seeing news clips of some 3rd world countries having demonstrations and moderate riots over the cost of corn. I think it was back toward summer of last year. Several of the demonstrators were carrying signs with illustrations of corn and wording in the language of whatever country. So I tend to believe the corn issue has caused some turmoil.
01-07-2012, 10:05 PM
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: 11-09-2008
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 196
I know that ethanol gas is wreaking havoc on small engines around here. Both of the lawn and garden service centers have told me that they have had tons of weed eaters and chainsaws to repair carbs and fuel lines.
01-08-2012, 06:52 AM
#17
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: 10-19-2011
Location: N.Y.
Posts: 1,553
if they would use and recommend to there customers to use a product called STartron they would not have the ethanol problems.I have been using startron for years and everyone I talked into using it is amazed at how long the ethanol can be stored and hoe much better cars snow blowers lawn mowers motorcycles etc run with it.
01-09-2012, 09:39 AM
#19
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: 10-19-2011
Location: N.Y.
Posts: 1,553
Sleeper
Ya I have heard some good things also about Seafoam and K100
I am assuming since the government is NOT giving billions to the oil industries to add ethanol into there gasoline it is just a matter of time before we see gas without ethanol or at least lower percentages?Of course I wonder are we talking months or years?
Anyone out there have gas stations that do not have ethanol blended in?
Ya I have heard some good things also about Seafoam and K100
I am assuming since the government is NOT giving billions to the oil industries to add ethanol into there gasoline it is just a matter of time before we see gas without ethanol or at least lower percentages?Of course I wonder are we talking months or years?
Anyone out there have gas stations that do not have ethanol blended in?
01-09-2012, 03:52 PM
#20
Senior Member
Join Date: 04-07-2008
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,051
Been using it in my small engines for many years. Never a problem. I have a 15 year old snow blower that runs like a top. Of course the housing is rusting away, but that's another issue altogether.