Clevelandhhrss

??? did you say $30k, as in US$30,000!!!!! To do what? LOL....there are a lot of usless and pointless patents out there. 30000 to get 9mpg better ought to be added to the list.

I think you are refering to Doug Pelmar. 80mpg and 400hp fom an 87stang, the xprize competitor, hope he does it. Hope he isn't just creating hype. His work has yet to be critiqued, if it stands up to the test, he will be a millionare, and very very famous. If not, one GIANT JACKASS.

My "gut" tells me this is some sort of a gimmick.

REDFLYR

^^^
like i said if you want to hum... and you can afford it... do it... most... i say most rich folk aren t stupid. these aren t patients... this is the kid doing diesl mods to the engines...

by your reasoning anyone paying a couple of hundred grand for a car is out out their mind

yes i said $30k

not the guy you refered (don t think) to on the ford.... it was a 60's mustange that he (an old guy who had the car since new) had been tinkering with (guessing a little 6 banger) for 30 or so years.... and it was over 150 mpg... local morning news (have to take notes next time)

Clevelandhhrss

If you find out who it is , let me know. I'm always intersted.

agentsmith23

The process that the original poster is talking about is producing HHO or Brown's gas through electrolysis. This method will in fact improve your fuel mileage. The way it works isn't too difficult to produce and it doesn't require the storage of hydrogen. This system makes hydrogen on demand. The only thing you will need to store is a small amount of water, usually less than a gallon.

Basically what this does is send electricity through water with an electrolyte added such as sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) which will separate the Hydrogen and Oxygen and then using a tube attached to the intake, (usually just into the plastic intake after the air filter and MAF sensor). The Hydrogen assists with the combustion and will actually make your engine run lean as far as gasoline goes. Now running lean usually is very bad but in this case it isn't because the hydrogen is making up for the lack of gasoline. And after combustion the hydrogen and oxygen will return to H2O (water) in the exhaust. This process does require a decent amount of current usually around 20Amps and it will make a good amount of heat.

This is really a very interesting concept and more research needs to be put into this. Just do some research on the internet and you will find a lot of very informative information. I have a feeling we will be seeing HHO/Brown's Gas vehicles within the next 5-10 years.

JoeR

Oh, yeah, Brown's gas.... Just add 5 qts. of Snake Oil to your crankcase next oil change...

Let's face it. If this was of absolutely ANY merit, don't you think that GM engineering is well aware of any possible benefits? And, given their unfortuanate situation of having numerous large SUVs and pickups sitting unsold in dealer's lots, shuttering the plants that produce them, etc., that this so-called inexpensive and effective method of increasing mileage would be just a simple retrofit of that unsold inventory and would save GM from billlions of losses in the current market?

Yeah, right...

Clevelandhhrss

Sigh....another person duped by phoney science.
I have made dozens of chemical systems , and modified many chemical processes. I have not wasted my time with this. Guess why???? This "brown gas" ....lol quite technical don't ya think?, has been around for a very long time. An it will stay around as long as people don't understand it. Can anyone out here on this forum please explain to me how this system works. Can anyone put together a decent defense as to how this system improves mileage. So far no one is willing to stand behind water for gas or any of "these" types of gimmicks.

You know what...I'VE HAD IT.

ILL BE MAKING ON OF THESE &*&%&ING SYSTEMS THIS WEEKEND, TEST IT MYSELF, THEN PROMPTLY BOW DOWN IN DEFEAT OR RUN IT OVER IN MY HHR ON YOUTUBE.

SEE YA MONDAY.

agentsmith23

I just explained it to you can you not comprehend it! And it is called BROWN'S GAS, not brown gas. Hydrogen is a very highly flammable gas, when produced by electrolysis and sucked into the intake of the engine it will make the engine request less gasoline and use the hydrogen in it's place. It is a very simple concept. The hydrogen is not the only fuel being used during combustion it is still using gasoline, but it is using less gasoline then normally used. It really shouldn't be too hard to comprehend. Read some articles on the net and watch some videos, if this were fake or a scam why would people who have nothing to gain be praising it? I can understand it being a scam if everyone who ever used it said it didn't work or people not being able to show real results but there is plenty of evidence showing that it does work! Just use google or you tube to look for videos of hho cars. There are plenty of videos out there and not all of them are even from the US there are people all over the world setting this up. I would not suggest just throwing one of these together over the weekend without some extensive testing and research first. You can severely damage your vehicle if this isn't set up right. There seem to be alot of people who know a little about chemistry that say this just can't possibly work but then there are those who have used it and can prove it does work! As the Chinese proverb says “the person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person who is doing it”.

Here is a link to a video that will show you how flammable HHO/brown's gas is.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...LP5rWiCw&hl=en



Brown's design


Oxyhydrogen gas produced in a common-ducted electrolyzer has been referred to as "Brown's gas",[citation needed] after Yull Brown who received a utility patent for a series cell common-ducted electrolyzer in 1977 and 1978 (the term "Brown's gas" is not used in his patents, but "a mixture of oxygen and hydrogen" is referenced).[8][10] Brown's torches also used an electric arc to increase the temperature of the flame (called atomic welding).[8]

REDFLYR

^^^

remember "mother earth news"? that little magazine use to have all kinds of neat articals about gagits that save bucks in odd ways... some were pretty ingenious. tried a couple of them for the fun of it... mostly the ones i tried worked (mostely solar... now allot of people are rediscovering what "off the grid" is. good old "MEN"

i don t discount anything... watching those two guys on DISCOVERY CH... driving around the USA testing all these little ideas...

if water injection can increase HP in aircraft engines... why not hydrogen?

jdmcomp

Actually Redflyr, water injection in aircraft engines is not done to increase hp but rather to prevent the engine from self destruction when operated in the "war emergency" setting which is like 115% output only to be used to save your butt from a ME109. Very little actual water was carried, enough to operate for only a few minutes.

This whole business on "hydrogen" is just another example of the perpetual motion machine. It just will not work. The bond between the h and the o2 in water is very strong and very difficult to break. It requires quite a bit of energy to achieve (note the "20 amps of current" required) and the energy has to come from somewhere. The large amount of heat produced is simply lost energy meaning what you get out is less, by the amount of the heat at least, then what you put in. Simple math.

agentsmith23

Yes you are getting out less than you put in. Just like with regular gasoline you only use roughly 13% of the gasolines energy. The addition of hydrogen even though it is in small quantities compared to an actual hydrogen fuel cell, will increase the efficiency of gasoline. There is no doubt in my mind that this isn't a super efficient way to create hydrogen, but we are not trying to create large amounts of hydrogen. We are just trying to create enough to reduce the amount of gasoline that is required.