Why?
05-12-2007, 08:34 PM
#21
Platinum Member
Join Date: 05-09-2006
Location: "Upland" Mesa, Arizona
Posts: 6,805
This same silly debate is going again....and now on 2 different active threads.
You do whatever you want. I'll add one comment for better or worse.
I know for an absolute fact that GM performs oil changes on test and durability vehicles, when the OLI indicates to do so (with very rare exceptions). Those vehicles experience much more destructive driving than most of the members encountered here. Each of the 300-500 vehicles (annually) accumulate 100,000 miles (except those rare occassions mentioned previously) and then are removed from service....generally crushed beyond use. All other maintenance items are also performed as indicated in the owners manual (again some exceptions).
So, I wonder why GM says change as the OLI indicates. It surely can't be because they want your engine to blow. But, again, you do what makes YOU comfortable.
Oh, my comfort level is not with the OLI, but it's not with oil changes at 3000 miles either. Like a few said, "It's cheap insurance" and frankly, I can afford it.
But you can listen to the retired SAE certified mechanic, whose been changing his oil at 3000 miles for 25 or 30 years. He's the guy that pulls the wrench (if not retired) at the GM dealers currently, who is "screwing up" the rotor jobs. But listen to him, because he can absolutely tell you the difference between an SE oil and an SJ oil. And wait until the SL or SM is introduced, if you really want to hear confusion.
I'm done, sorry.
I guess we all are bored on a Saturday to be sitting here doing this. But, I just can't believe how many times this topic has been "hit". With dedicated and highjacked threads. And, it's not been, and never will be, resolved.
I'm going to have a nice Dominican and some Blanton's.
You do whatever you want. I'll add one comment for better or worse.
I know for an absolute fact that GM performs oil changes on test and durability vehicles, when the OLI indicates to do so (with very rare exceptions). Those vehicles experience much more destructive driving than most of the members encountered here. Each of the 300-500 vehicles (annually) accumulate 100,000 miles (except those rare occassions mentioned previously) and then are removed from service....generally crushed beyond use. All other maintenance items are also performed as indicated in the owners manual (again some exceptions).
So, I wonder why GM says change as the OLI indicates. It surely can't be because they want your engine to blow. But, again, you do what makes YOU comfortable.
Oh, my comfort level is not with the OLI, but it's not with oil changes at 3000 miles either. Like a few said, "It's cheap insurance" and frankly, I can afford it.
But you can listen to the retired SAE certified mechanic, whose been changing his oil at 3000 miles for 25 or 30 years. He's the guy that pulls the wrench (if not retired) at the GM dealers currently, who is "screwing up" the rotor jobs. But listen to him, because he can absolutely tell you the difference between an SE oil and an SJ oil. And wait until the SL or SM is introduced, if you really want to hear confusion.
I'm done, sorry.
I guess we all are bored on a Saturday to be sitting here doing this. But, I just can't believe how many times this topic has been "hit". With dedicated and highjacked threads. And, it's not been, and never will be, resolved.I'm going to have a nice Dominican and some Blanton's.
05-12-2007, 08:36 PM
#22
Senior Member
Join Date: 05-03-2006
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Posts: 882
The 2006 manual is in the same post in the event yours is a 2006.
?
05-13-2007, 08:10 AM
#25
Senior Member
Join Date: 08-15-2006
Location: NC
Posts: 223
Technology has certainly changed especialy in the oil worl. A few years back our race team was sponsered by a major oil company. I had to goto classes on oil technology and the characteristics of the new thinner oils. When qualifying we run a 00000w oil with additives that are made to seep past the rings to give extra hp for a couple of laps. After qualifing we would drain the oil and dispose of it. For the races we would run 30w oil. Now the new engine are built with tighter clearances and not with total seal (gapless) rings so you run a thinner oil. Oil doesn't break down as easily as it used to but with the thinner oils it makes sense to change the oils more often. I guess you follow theproceedure that makes you comfortable but calling ones who choose to change their oil every 3000 miles ingnorant or uneducated is a bit unresponsilble. How long do you plan to keep your car? If you only plan to keep it for under 100,000 miles then you usage will be less than mine. I work around and on cars everyday of my life and have since I was 8 . I worked at the mercedees dealership where it was routine to see gas cars over 300,000 miles with no work done to the engine. Why? Because the owners followed the service proceedures AND changed the oil every 3000 miles! Why do I have 27,000 miles on my HHR and half pads left on my brakes? I know how to bed brakes in. But I'm just an uneducated ignorant southern redneck who works on race cars we drug out of the field to race around the pasture cause we ain't got electricty in the trailer. Maybe one day I'll be as smart as someone who doesn't work on cars, about them.! LOL Do whatever makes you comfortable on changing you oil. But ask your mechanic what he does in his personal car!
05-13-2007, 08:36 AM
#26
Banned
Join Date: 10-24-2006
Location: The Show-Me State
Posts: 1,761
Mercedes-Benz hasn't had a 3,000 mile interval for years. Neither does Honda or Toyota, and those cars don't seem to have a problem getting between 200k and 300k.
Also, I don't think anyone who continues to change their oil at 3,000 miles is ignorant or uneducated. Just uninformed and conservative to change. Nothing wrong with that at all, except for the fact that millions of gallons of oil are needlessly released back into the environment every year for no good reason. There are people here who've had their oil tested by labs to see if it was still good after the DIC popped off Change Oil Soon, and sure enough it still was. I'm pretty sure after all the testing GM has done on the system for the better part of 20 years, they found the same thing.
The weakest part of any oiling system in the engine is actually the filter. You could actually fill your engine with synthetic oil and it'd be good for the life of the engine, but the filters really start to break down rapidly after about 10,000 miles. I have friends who work on turbines and jets for the military and they fill 'em with Mobil oil and never change it unless they're doing a full teardown and rebuild.
BB, you've mentioned my complaining about the SM failing to reset the DIC on my parent's car. The reason why I did was because every single other GM dealership I'd taken MY car to did it as part of the job. This dealership specifically chose to ignore the recommended servicing guide in the vehicle's owners manual and tried to substitute their own that was provided by a third party, plus tried to ply more money out of my parents for future service that is not needed.
Also, I don't think anyone who continues to change their oil at 3,000 miles is ignorant or uneducated. Just uninformed and conservative to change. Nothing wrong with that at all, except for the fact that millions of gallons of oil are needlessly released back into the environment every year for no good reason. There are people here who've had their oil tested by labs to see if it was still good after the DIC popped off Change Oil Soon, and sure enough it still was. I'm pretty sure after all the testing GM has done on the system for the better part of 20 years, they found the same thing.
The weakest part of any oiling system in the engine is actually the filter. You could actually fill your engine with synthetic oil and it'd be good for the life of the engine, but the filters really start to break down rapidly after about 10,000 miles. I have friends who work on turbines and jets for the military and they fill 'em with Mobil oil and never change it unless they're doing a full teardown and rebuild.
BB, you've mentioned my complaining about the SM failing to reset the DIC on my parent's car. The reason why I did was because every single other GM dealership I'd taken MY car to did it as part of the job. This dealership specifically chose to ignore the recommended servicing guide in the vehicle's owners manual and tried to substitute their own that was provided by a third party, plus tried to ply more money out of my parents for future service that is not needed.
05-13-2007, 04:40 PM
#27
Platinum Member
Join Date: 05-09-2006
Location: "Upland" Mesa, Arizona
Posts: 6,805
Tomdent1......I wasn't speaking, specifically, to you. But if you feel that way, so be it.
I'm not defending what I wrote and still support everything indicated. But,....
My reference did not question anyones intelligence....yours did. I was QUESTIONING the validity of implimenting an oil change program based on faceless, nameless people who make statements of unknown origin about WHAT WORKS BEST FOR THEM vs. a company who has spent multi millions of dollars and utilized multi millions of miles of testing over a 20 year period (although, I will agree GM doesn't do EVERYHING correctly).
You also answered and supported my statements in your very first sentence....thank you.
Big difference between race engines/oils and consumer engine/oils....so it really means nothing. Completely different applications (which is part of MY inferred working hypothesis).
Vehicle longevity and service...see my other posts (but again, for every one you give to support your position, I can give one to support mine)!! Additionally, studies, consumer clinics, reports indicate the average American retains a vehicle about five years, accumulates something like 100,000 miles in that period, and trades or sells, because of vehicle design (wonder why GM uses 100,000 miles) If you are different, do what makes you comfortable.
Oh, by the way....I'm not UNRESPONSIBLE...maybe IRRESPONSIBLE. Look it up.
And I did ask my mechanic (a Specialized Senior Floor Technician from GM Technical Labs). So, I am doing what he suggested....".......and then, whatever you are comfortable with".
I'm just going to mention this as something to think about. But several friends, who own previously mentioned expensive vehicles, can't even get an oil change appointment with their dealer UNLESS the "Change Oil" indicator is illuminated. These are not 3, 4 or 5 thousand mile recommended vehicles.
hhrcrafty......
I agree, again, with you. How can you trust a dealership to perform the necessary requirements to a warranty rotor repair, if they can't even reset the OLI, which is supposedly, part of their service (rhetorical).
A life time oil system is available, if you wish to pay for it. But GM, and other auto manufacturers, with the cooperation of the oil manufacturuers, are working on oil systems to provide even longer intervals, than current, to the changes. And, I bet the dealers will still say to change every 3000 miles.....which might be right for you (the whatever YOU are comfortable with, thing).
Anyway, I bid you a fond "ado".
I'm not defending what I wrote and still support everything indicated. But,....
My reference did not question anyones intelligence....yours did. I was QUESTIONING the validity of implimenting an oil change program based on faceless, nameless people who make statements of unknown origin about WHAT WORKS BEST FOR THEM vs. a company who has spent multi millions of dollars and utilized multi millions of miles of testing over a 20 year period (although, I will agree GM doesn't do EVERYHING correctly).
You also answered and supported my statements in your very first sentence....thank you.
Big difference between race engines/oils and consumer engine/oils....so it really means nothing. Completely different applications (which is part of MY inferred working hypothesis).
Vehicle longevity and service...see my other posts (but again, for every one you give to support your position, I can give one to support mine)!! Additionally, studies, consumer clinics, reports indicate the average American retains a vehicle about five years, accumulates something like 100,000 miles in that period, and trades or sells, because of vehicle design (wonder why GM uses 100,000 miles) If you are different, do what makes you comfortable.
Oh, by the way....I'm not UNRESPONSIBLE...maybe IRRESPONSIBLE. Look it up.
And I did ask my mechanic (a Specialized Senior Floor Technician from GM Technical Labs). So, I am doing what he suggested....".......and then, whatever you are comfortable with".
I'm just going to mention this as something to think about. But several friends, who own previously mentioned expensive vehicles, can't even get an oil change appointment with their dealer UNLESS the "Change Oil" indicator is illuminated. These are not 3, 4 or 5 thousand mile recommended vehicles.
hhrcrafty......
I agree, again, with you. How can you trust a dealership to perform the necessary requirements to a warranty rotor repair, if they can't even reset the OLI, which is supposedly, part of their service (rhetorical).
A life time oil system is available, if you wish to pay for it. But GM, and other auto manufacturers, with the cooperation of the oil manufacturuers, are working on oil systems to provide even longer intervals, than current, to the changes. And, I bet the dealers will still say to change every 3000 miles.....which might be right for you (the whatever YOU are comfortable with, thing).
Anyway, I bid you a fond "ado".