Automatic SS brake problems -- dealer results
Senior Member
Joined: 05-06-2008
Posts: 1,076
From: Over here
Senior Member
Joined: 05-10-2008
Posts: 314
From: Illinois
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: 06-29-2008
Posts: 166
From: Omaha, NE
Mine just went in today... after the ABS engaged to stop the car!!!! IN REVERSE, slowly backing out of garage!!!
I am just a little pissed. I was cool with my dealer, cause they just work on them. Those guys don't need the ear full. This has to be an engineering issue if most of us are having this issue on first start-up of the day. So GM needs to step it up and get this resolved. Hell, I already bought a chincy automatic with 10-25 less HP. I would like to have some good brakes though.
I love my SS and don't want to give it up, but it is my Daily Driver. I bought it for my commutes, and now that the Jeep is tore apart, no ride! I hope they figure this out quick.
Thanks to everyone who posted. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't the only one.
Senior Member
Joined: 07-05-2008
Posts: 5,464
From: Akron Ohio
At this point I would be guessing they are looking either for a leak or bleed in the vacume system.
The trick is once it is found to prepare a fix thaty not only can be retro fitted to the 08 but will also become a factory fit on the 09 SS.
It may be something as simple as a check valve, new line or vaccume can. Or ti may take something like a new booster if it is in it.
The Fix on my 04 GP as for bounciing headlights at night. I Took till after the 05 was already im prduction that they found a fix and put it on a TSB for the 04 and as a factory fix on the 05.
Part of the problem is GM may or not have had this problem on some of their own. I suspect the buy back was part of a way to have one with the problem to figure out what is up. If they have had an issue they may be checking to dee if it is the same thing.
The HHR with the Smell problem was only on a few but thery bought a few back to tear them appart to find out what was wrong.
If the ones at GM had no issues it is hard to fix if it ain't broke.
I would be intertested if they buy back a few more find the issue.
Also reporting this to the goverment will not hurt at all but it is best to go to GM first as they are the ones that need to know and will have to fix it. So contacting both is not a bad idea.
Document how often and when this problem happens. The conditions and times. The more info you give the more the dealer can report back and help GM identify what mey be wrong.
Anyone with this issue stick a note book in the SS and mark it down as to when where and what you were doing when it happened. Keep one copy for yourself and make a copy for the dealer. Continue this record after your dealer visit.
Also if you have a reliable service departrment at a large dealer you may want to call and see if they have knowledge of this and what they know.
Also shearch the web to see if this reported elsewhere.
The trick is once it is found to prepare a fix thaty not only can be retro fitted to the 08 but will also become a factory fit on the 09 SS.
It may be something as simple as a check valve, new line or vaccume can. Or ti may take something like a new booster if it is in it.
The Fix on my 04 GP as for bounciing headlights at night. I Took till after the 05 was already im prduction that they found a fix and put it on a TSB for the 04 and as a factory fix on the 05.
Part of the problem is GM may or not have had this problem on some of their own. I suspect the buy back was part of a way to have one with the problem to figure out what is up. If they have had an issue they may be checking to dee if it is the same thing.
The HHR with the Smell problem was only on a few but thery bought a few back to tear them appart to find out what was wrong.
If the ones at GM had no issues it is hard to fix if it ain't broke.
I would be intertested if they buy back a few more find the issue.
Also reporting this to the goverment will not hurt at all but it is best to go to GM first as they are the ones that need to know and will have to fix it. So contacting both is not a bad idea.
Document how often and when this problem happens. The conditions and times. The more info you give the more the dealer can report back and help GM identify what mey be wrong.
Anyone with this issue stick a note book in the SS and mark it down as to when where and what you were doing when it happened. Keep one copy for yourself and make a copy for the dealer. Continue this record after your dealer visit.
Also if you have a reliable service departrment at a large dealer you may want to call and see if they have knowledge of this and what they know.
Also shearch the web to see if this reported elsewhere.
Member
Joined: 06-27-2008
Posts: 51
From: Hudson, WI
HHR SS Brake Problem Solved
Here is the scoop on the brake problem. I took mine in and the dealer had it for a week while talking to the GM engineers and they came up with a fix. The fix is a vacuum pump and they designed one and have sent the prototype out for bids to pick a manufacturer. When this is produced they will call me and install it. My dealer even offered to buy my car back but I declined because I like it too much and there isn't anything else on the market right now that I like. They tell me that it will take 40-50 days for this to happen. This is the same cure they did with the Solstice GXP turbo. That pump would not fit the HHR SS so they had to design a new one. Be patient and it will be repaired.
Untill this happens rev up the motor two or three times before you take off and watch the turbo gauge till the vacuum increases then you will have brakes.
Pat
Untill this happens rev up the motor two or three times before you take off and watch the turbo gauge till the vacuum increases then you will have brakes.
Pat
Senior Member
Joined: 07-05-2008
Posts: 5,464
From: Akron Ohio
Here is the scoop on the brake problem. I took mine in and the dealer had it for a week while talking to the GM engineers and they came up with a fix. The fix is a vacuum pump and they designed one and have sent the prototype out for bids to pick a manufacturer. When this is produced they will call me and install it. My dealer even offered to buy my car back but I declined because I like it too much and there isn't anything else on the market right now that I like. They tell me that it will take 40-50 days for this to happen. This is the same cure they did with the Solstice GXP turbo. That pump would not fit the HHR SS so they had to design a new one. Be patient and it will be repaired.
Untill this happens rev up the motor two or three times before you take off and watch the turbo gauge till the vacuum increases then you will have brakes.
Pat
Untill this happens rev up the motor two or three times before you take off and watch the turbo gauge till the vacuum increases then you will have brakes.
Pat
Thanks!
Please once they contact you please post the TSB number and part numbers once you get it it fixed. This would make it easier for others to explain to their dealer what needs to be done to fix the problem.
I had a feeling they had been working on it but I had no idea where they were at on it.
Senior Member
Joined: 07-05-2008
Posts: 5,464
From: Akron Ohio
Here is the TSB for the Kappa Turbo problem:
June 26th
Quote:
#07-05-25-007B: Pedal Noise/Buzz, Extra Effort Needed to Depress Brake Pedal After Vehicle Has Not Been Driven For Extended Period of Time (Reprogram ECM and ECM) - (May 16, 2008)
Models: 2008 Pontiac Solstice GXP
2008 Saturn SKY Redline
2008 Daewoo G2X
Built Prior to the Breakpoints Listed Below
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This bulletin is being revised to announce that the calibrations are available for vehicles equipped with manual transmissions. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 07-05-25-007A (Section 05 -- Brakes).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Model-VIN Breakpoint
Saturn-8Y129355
Pontiac-8Y129363
Daewoo-All Vehicles
Please make a copy of this bulletin and give it to your customer for future reference.
System Description
The 2008 Pontiac Solstice GXP, Saturn SKY Redline, and Daewoo G2X are performance vehicles that come equipped with the 2.0L (RPO LNF) engine and an advanced performance braking system called Optimized Hydraulic Boost (OHB). The OHB brake system utilizes the Anti-Lock Brake System (ABS) to assist vehicle braking in low brake vacuum conditions.
The brake systems on these vehicles use engine vacuum to assist the power brake system during most brake applications. The OHB system supplements the power assist brake system when there is low engine vacuum, such as when the engine is initially started after an extended period of no operation or while operating in high altitude.
Condition
Some customers may comment on one or more of the following brake system characteristics:
• Increased brake pedal effort due to low brake booster vacuum conditions that may occur after the vehicle has not been operated for an extended period of time and/or at higher altitudes and restarted.
• Brake pedal movement or pulsation accompanied by a ratchet sound coming from the brake system during OHB activation when braking.
Correction
Reprogram the ECM with an updated engine calibration. This new service calibration will increase engine vacuum when the vehicle is initially started.
Reprogram the EBCM with an updated brake calibration. This programming event will return the module to its original state if it was previously updated for this condition.
These calibrations will be available as an EBCM/ECM programming sequence event. From the controller list, select "EBCM/ECM Sequential Program."
Important:
• After the EBCM/ECM calibration, brake pedal movement or pulsation accompanied by a ratchet sound will be reduced.
• Allowing the engine to idle for a period of time after the engine is started will help increase the vacuum for the power assist brake system.
• If the SVC BRAKE SYSTEM message is displayed on the DIC. The brake system must be inspected for any faults in the system.
Refer to the Owner Manual (page 4-4 for the Pontiac Solstice or Saturn SKY) for additional information on this brake system operation.
GM bulletins are intended for use by professional technicians, NOT a "do-it-yourselfer". They are written to inform these technicians of conditions that may occur on some vehicles, or to provide information that could assist in the proper service of a vehicle. Properly trained technicians have the equipment, tools, safety instructions, and know-how to do a job properly and safely. If a condition is described, DO NOT assume that the bulletin applies to your vehicle, or that your vehicle will have that condition. See your GM dealer for information on whether your vehicle may benefit from the information.
The recalibration is covered under the New Vehicle Limited Warranty for 36 months or 36,000 miles, which ever comes first.
The NHTSA has closed their Preliminary Investigation into the 2008 Solstice GXP and 2008 Saturn Sky Redline and the OHB System. So it appears no further investigation or no escalation to a recall request will be forthcoming.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NHTSA
A SAFETY-RELATED DEFECT HAS NOT BEEN IDENTIFIED AT THIS TIME AND FURTHER USE OF AGENCY RESOURCES DOES NOT APPEAR TO BE WARRANTED. ACCORDINGLY, THIS INVESTIGATION IS CLOSED.
June 26th
Quote:
#07-05-25-007B: Pedal Noise/Buzz, Extra Effort Needed to Depress Brake Pedal After Vehicle Has Not Been Driven For Extended Period of Time (Reprogram ECM and ECM) - (May 16, 2008)
Models: 2008 Pontiac Solstice GXP
2008 Saturn SKY Redline
2008 Daewoo G2X
Built Prior to the Breakpoints Listed Below
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This bulletin is being revised to announce that the calibrations are available for vehicles equipped with manual transmissions. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 07-05-25-007A (Section 05 -- Brakes).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Model-VIN Breakpoint
Saturn-8Y129355
Pontiac-8Y129363
Daewoo-All Vehicles
Please make a copy of this bulletin and give it to your customer for future reference.
System Description
The 2008 Pontiac Solstice GXP, Saturn SKY Redline, and Daewoo G2X are performance vehicles that come equipped with the 2.0L (RPO LNF) engine and an advanced performance braking system called Optimized Hydraulic Boost (OHB). The OHB brake system utilizes the Anti-Lock Brake System (ABS) to assist vehicle braking in low brake vacuum conditions.
The brake systems on these vehicles use engine vacuum to assist the power brake system during most brake applications. The OHB system supplements the power assist brake system when there is low engine vacuum, such as when the engine is initially started after an extended period of no operation or while operating in high altitude.
Condition
Some customers may comment on one or more of the following brake system characteristics:
• Increased brake pedal effort due to low brake booster vacuum conditions that may occur after the vehicle has not been operated for an extended period of time and/or at higher altitudes and restarted.
• Brake pedal movement or pulsation accompanied by a ratchet sound coming from the brake system during OHB activation when braking.
Correction
Reprogram the ECM with an updated engine calibration. This new service calibration will increase engine vacuum when the vehicle is initially started.
Reprogram the EBCM with an updated brake calibration. This programming event will return the module to its original state if it was previously updated for this condition.
These calibrations will be available as an EBCM/ECM programming sequence event. From the controller list, select "EBCM/ECM Sequential Program."
Important:
• After the EBCM/ECM calibration, brake pedal movement or pulsation accompanied by a ratchet sound will be reduced.
• Allowing the engine to idle for a period of time after the engine is started will help increase the vacuum for the power assist brake system.
• If the SVC BRAKE SYSTEM message is displayed on the DIC. The brake system must be inspected for any faults in the system.
Refer to the Owner Manual (page 4-4 for the Pontiac Solstice or Saturn SKY) for additional information on this brake system operation.
GM bulletins are intended for use by professional technicians, NOT a "do-it-yourselfer". They are written to inform these technicians of conditions that may occur on some vehicles, or to provide information that could assist in the proper service of a vehicle. Properly trained technicians have the equipment, tools, safety instructions, and know-how to do a job properly and safely. If a condition is described, DO NOT assume that the bulletin applies to your vehicle, or that your vehicle will have that condition. See your GM dealer for information on whether your vehicle may benefit from the information.
The recalibration is covered under the New Vehicle Limited Warranty for 36 months or 36,000 miles, which ever comes first.
The NHTSA has closed their Preliminary Investigation into the 2008 Solstice GXP and 2008 Saturn Sky Redline and the OHB System. So it appears no further investigation or no escalation to a recall request will be forthcoming.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NHTSA
A SAFETY-RELATED DEFECT HAS NOT BEEN IDENTIFIED AT THIS TIME AND FURTHER USE OF AGENCY RESOURCES DOES NOT APPEAR TO BE WARRANTED. ACCORDINGLY, THIS INVESTIGATION IS CLOSED.
Senior Member
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 113
From: Michigan
Here is the scoop on the brake problem. I took mine in and the dealer had it for a week while talking to the GM engineers and they came up with a fix. The fix is a vacuum pump and they designed one and have sent the prototype out for bids to pick a manufacturer. When this is produced they will call me and install it. My dealer even offered to buy my car back but I declined because I like it too much and there isn't anything else on the market right now that I like. They tell me that it will take 40-50 days for this to happen. This is the same cure they did with the Solstice GXP turbo. That pump would not fit the HHR SS so they had to design a new one. Be patient and it will be repaired.
Untill this happens rev up the motor two or three times before you take off and watch the turbo gauge till the vacuum increases then you will have brakes.
Pat
Untill this happens rev up the motor two or three times before you take off and watch the turbo gauge till the vacuum increases then you will have brakes.
Pat
I think this may be a reasonable workaround until a new vacuum pump is ready for all of our Automatic based Turbo HHR's. From the post above it will still be a while before a final fix is complete since any new design will need quite a bit of testing (or at least should) so that it is deemed safe and ready to deploy on our HHR's.
Any thoughts?
Senior Member
Joined: 05-06-2008
Posts: 1,076
From: Over here
Ok, how about a quick fix? With all the sensors on the HHR isn't there one that tells how much Vacuum is available for the brakes?? Since the shifter can't move until you put your foot on the brake why in the world don't they just make a small change to the firmware that won't allow the shifter to move until the brake is pressed AND there is sufficient vacuum available?