Does using 87 octane really save money?
08-29-2008, 08:20 PM
#32
Senior Member
Join Date: 07-05-2008
Location: Akron Ohio
Posts: 5,464
She is the new Scott Settlelmire for the 5th gen program.
Very classy lady. She came from the Corvette program and has a strong perfromance background. Her Husband is Mark Clawson, he is now on the Avalanche program. He has been moving up at GM faily fast and a real car guy.
08-29-2008, 09:18 PM
#33
Senior Member
Join Date: 05-04-2008
Location: Stockton,CA
Posts: 295
I have gotten 33.75 MPG with a 2.4 auto 87 oct mostly all freeway 95% and i was driving like a grandma (no offense to any grandmas out there) and some hyprmilling I go to N when going down hill or rolling to a stop sign but with 91 oct I only get about 27-28 MPG I cant keep my foot out of the injector LOL I try to drice civilized but with 91 the damn car just likes to hall ASSprin hehehahaha plus my 2 year old keeps saying go daddy go I would like to try and see what I can do with 92 oct if it is better MPG
08-29-2008, 09:25 PM
#34
Senior Member
Join Date: 03-22-2008
Location: Binghamton, NY
Posts: 228
Cheryl Pilcher: Camaro Product Manager
She is the new Scott Settlelmire for the 5th gen program.
Very classy lady. She came from the Corvette program and has a strong perfromance background. Her Husband is Mark Clawson, he is now on the Avalanche program. He has been moving up at GM faily fast and a real car guy.
She is the new Scott Settlelmire for the 5th gen program.
Very classy lady. She came from the Corvette program and has a strong perfromance background. Her Husband is Mark Clawson, he is now on the Avalanche program. He has been moving up at GM faily fast and a real car guy.
Wish I could go. A bunch of my friends will be there.....and some are "disciples" (you can ask her about them....) http://www.gm.ca/static/english/vehi...tml?fdl=camaro
Scott's an awesome guy. Mention Sneezy to him and he will probably say a few explatives and call me an import guy
(I have a firebird, HHR, Honda, my dad has an HHR, & silverado; go figure)Had dinner & drinks with him many a time. He's the director of car shows now. A bunch of my friends & I always see him at the NY Auto Show. They don't get much more loyal than him! He's lectured me many a times for the Honda in my driveway
I can't say enough good about Scott (wish he could say the same for me though......) I havent seen him since April in NY. I still owe him a bottle or 3 of wine as well. Man, I'd have to part with 1 of my 150 bottles 
Ain't it great to know people in the biz?
08-29-2008, 10:44 PM
#35
Senior Member
Join Date: 07-05-2008
Location: Akron Ohio
Posts: 5,464
She's going to be at the camaro & firebird gathering at indy in a few weeks. http://www.indycamaro.com/
Wish I could go. A bunch of my friends will be there.....and some are "disciples" (you can ask her about them....) http://www.gm.ca/static/english/vehi...tml?fdl=camaro
Scott's an awesome guy. Mention Sneezy to him and he will probably say a few explatives and call me an import guy (I have a firebird, HHR, Honda, my dad has an HHR, & silverado; go figure)
Had dinner & drinks with him many a time. He's the director of car shows now. A bunch of my friends & I always see him at the NY Auto Show. They don't get much more loyal than him! He's lectured me many a times for the Honda in my driveway I can't say enough good about Scott (wish he could say the same for me though......) I havent seen him since April in NY. I still owe him a bottle or 3 of wine as well. Man, I'd have to part with 1 of my 150 bottles
Ain't it great to know people in the biz?
Wish I could go. A bunch of my friends will be there.....and some are "disciples" (you can ask her about them....) http://www.gm.ca/static/english/vehi...tml?fdl=camaro
Scott's an awesome guy. Mention Sneezy to him and he will probably say a few explatives and call me an import guy
(I have a firebird, HHR, Honda, my dad has an HHR, & silverado; go figure)Had dinner & drinks with him many a time. He's the director of car shows now. A bunch of my friends & I always see him at the NY Auto Show. They don't get much more loyal than him! He's lectured me many a times for the Honda in my driveway
I can't say enough good about Scott (wish he could say the same for me though......) I havent seen him since April in NY. I still owe him a bottle or 3 of wine as well. Man, I'd have to part with 1 of my 150 bottles Ain't it great to know people in the biz?
Also I am not 100% positive but I may have been the first to coin the phrase Deciple to Scott and it took off from there. I never heard it before that thread and Scott started using it in the same Camaro tread I first used it in.
Scott is the one who intro'd me to Mark and when I was over at their house he intro's me to his wife. Mark is like Scott, you could sit and talk cars a long time with him.
I may see Scott next weekend if he can break away to a Camaro show I am Judging next week. I am hoping he brings a 5th gen this year. Last year he has a Z06 and the Bumble Bee at the event.
I have a few contacts at GM and it help when you want to reshearch something.
I have some prototype Fiero items from the still born 1990 Fiero. Scott and Mark help me along with a guy from the tech center I know to ID the parts and even sent me the engineering drawing on them. I was able to get the story published in High PErfromance Pontiac 2 years ago.
Without their help I would have never made the connection to the people who helped me.
08-30-2008, 12:14 AM
#37
New Member
Join Date: 08-27-2008
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 21
What I don't understand are the people that get so wound up on who uses what.
It is like Pepsi and Coke. Who cares what the other guy is using it does not effect me or you.
GM says you can use either but to expect changes enough sid there.
There is no right or wrong here so whats the debate?
I use 91 but if someone wants 87 so be it if they are happy it is their choice.
After driving a Supercharged engine that can use either it runs fine on both. If you want more power and to run it hard best to use 91. If you are just driving to work on the freeway 87 runs fine. No knocks no great loss of power that turns you into a road block or other bad things happen.
GM builds these cars to make the warranty with ease and build in margins of safety. The engine will not implode on regular it simply will not perform upto it full power.
I like the extra power so it is 91. If you like how it runs on 87 go for it.
It is like Pepsi and Coke. Who cares what the other guy is using it does not effect me or you.
GM says you can use either but to expect changes enough sid there.
There is no right or wrong here so whats the debate?
I use 91 but if someone wants 87 so be it if they are happy it is their choice.
After driving a Supercharged engine that can use either it runs fine on both. If you want more power and to run it hard best to use 91. If you are just driving to work on the freeway 87 runs fine. No knocks no great loss of power that turns you into a road block or other bad things happen.
GM builds these cars to make the warranty with ease and build in margins of safety. The engine will not implode on regular it simply will not perform upto it full power.
I like the extra power so it is 91. If you like how it runs on 87 go for it.
08-30-2008, 11:22 AM
#38
Senior Member
Join Date: 08-06-2007
Location: Edison, NJ
Posts: 359
Let's see....if I understand this whole octane conundrum correctly...
1. The octane rating of an internal combustion engine fuel defines the tendency of the fuel to auto-detonate (start burning without the assistance of a high-energy spark). The higher the octane rating, the less likely the fuel is to do that.
2. When fuel in a combustion chamber auto-detonates, it happens before the piston reaches the top of it's upward stroke, when full compression is realized. (I know that most ignition timing occurs BTDC) So the piston is on it's way up, and the fuel explodes, and the expanding gases cause an enormous resistance to the piston's upward travel. Who's there? Knock Knock. Or maybe ping ping.
3. The higher the compression ratio of an engine, the sooner in the combustion cycle the pressure conditions develop that can cause a lower octane rated fuel to auto-detonate and cause knocking, pinging and loss of power. Therefore, it is advantageous to use a higher octane fuel in an engine with a higher compression ratio.
4. Unless you are an organic chemist with a strong background in automotive engine technology, you cannot possibly make any unequivocal statements concerning the type of fuel that you should burn in your own vehicle.
5. If there were no real-world effects upon internal combustion engines with respect to octane ratings, there would be no reason for refiners to produce anything but a common, compromised octane rated gasoline. Engine designers eschew the one-size-fits-all approach, and probably for sound scientific reasons.
6. 87 octane gasoline will burn in 2.4L LT and 2.0L turbocharged SS engines. It probably won't tear your engine apart. But you are only fooling yourself if you think that it helps.
1. The octane rating of an internal combustion engine fuel defines the tendency of the fuel to auto-detonate (start burning without the assistance of a high-energy spark). The higher the octane rating, the less likely the fuel is to do that.
2. When fuel in a combustion chamber auto-detonates, it happens before the piston reaches the top of it's upward stroke, when full compression is realized. (I know that most ignition timing occurs BTDC) So the piston is on it's way up, and the fuel explodes, and the expanding gases cause an enormous resistance to the piston's upward travel. Who's there? Knock Knock. Or maybe ping ping.
3. The higher the compression ratio of an engine, the sooner in the combustion cycle the pressure conditions develop that can cause a lower octane rated fuel to auto-detonate and cause knocking, pinging and loss of power. Therefore, it is advantageous to use a higher octane fuel in an engine with a higher compression ratio.
4. Unless you are an organic chemist with a strong background in automotive engine technology, you cannot possibly make any unequivocal statements concerning the type of fuel that you should burn in your own vehicle.
5. If there were no real-world effects upon internal combustion engines with respect to octane ratings, there would be no reason for refiners to produce anything but a common, compromised octane rated gasoline. Engine designers eschew the one-size-fits-all approach, and probably for sound scientific reasons.
6. 87 octane gasoline will burn in 2.4L LT and 2.0L turbocharged SS engines. It probably won't tear your engine apart. But you are only fooling yourself if you think that it helps.
08-30-2008, 11:30 AM
#39
Senior Member
Join Date: 07-03-2008
Location: jerSSey, exit 5
Posts: 1,664
Let's see....if I understand this whole octane conundrum correctly...
1. The octane rating of an internal combustion engine fuel defines the tendency of the fuel to auto-detonate (start burning without the assistance of a high-energy spark). The higher the octane rating, the less likely the fuel is to do that.
2. When fuel in a combustion chamber auto-detonates, it happens before the piston reaches the top of it's upward stroke, when full compression is realized. (I know that most ignition timing occurs BTDC) So the piston is on it's way up, and the fuel explodes, and the expanding gases cause an enormous resistance to the piston's upward travel. Who's there? Knock Knock. Or maybe ping ping.
3. The higher the compression ratio of an engine, the sooner in the combustion cycle the pressure conditions develop that can cause a lower octane rated fuel to auto-detonate and cause knocking, pinging and loss of power. Therefore, it is advantageous to use a higher octane fuel in an engine with a higher compression ratio.
4. Unless you are an organic chemist with a strong background in automotive engine technology, you cannot possibly make any unequivocal statements concerning the type of fuel that you should burn in your own vehicle.
5. If there were no real-world effects upon internal combustion engines with respect to octane ratings, there would be no reason for refiners to produce anything but a common, compromised octane rated gasoline. Engine designers eschew the one-size-fits-all approach, and probably for sound scientific reasons.
6. 87 octane gasoline will burn in 2.4L LT and 2.0L turbocharged SS engines. It probably won't tear your engine apart. But you are only fooling yourself if you think that it helps.
1. The octane rating of an internal combustion engine fuel defines the tendency of the fuel to auto-detonate (start burning without the assistance of a high-energy spark). The higher the octane rating, the less likely the fuel is to do that.
2. When fuel in a combustion chamber auto-detonates, it happens before the piston reaches the top of it's upward stroke, when full compression is realized. (I know that most ignition timing occurs BTDC) So the piston is on it's way up, and the fuel explodes, and the expanding gases cause an enormous resistance to the piston's upward travel. Who's there? Knock Knock. Or maybe ping ping.
3. The higher the compression ratio of an engine, the sooner in the combustion cycle the pressure conditions develop that can cause a lower octane rated fuel to auto-detonate and cause knocking, pinging and loss of power. Therefore, it is advantageous to use a higher octane fuel in an engine with a higher compression ratio.
4. Unless you are an organic chemist with a strong background in automotive engine technology, you cannot possibly make any unequivocal statements concerning the type of fuel that you should burn in your own vehicle.
5. If there were no real-world effects upon internal combustion engines with respect to octane ratings, there would be no reason for refiners to produce anything but a common, compromised octane rated gasoline. Engine designers eschew the one-size-fits-all approach, and probably for sound scientific reasons.
6. 87 octane gasoline will burn in 2.4L LT and 2.0L turbocharged SS engines. It probably won't tear your engine apart. But you are only fooling yourself if you think that it helps.
Are there numbers to show that the fuel is detonating a certain time frame before the pistol reaches the pinnacle? Is it a matter of a few milliseconds? Does it happen all the time or only under heavy acceleration? And as others have mentioned, doesn't the computer compensate for this premature ignition of the fuel when using 87 octane?
I would imagine that if the fuel was igniting a substantial amount of time before it should, the whole engine would blow apart after a short period of time.