Does using 87 octane really save money?
08-30-2008, 01:13 PM
#41
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08-30-2008, 02:19 PM
#42
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Join Date: 07-06-2008
Location: Mission Viejo, CA
Posts: 90
XXL nicely done.
I have built many engines...
Preignition or detonation is not your friend. In a modern engine it can still cause damage if a knock or harmonic sensor fails or reads incorrectly.
Computer controls allow the engine to sense for this so GM for example can sell performance cars to people who will not pony up for the more expensive gas. As crazy as that sounds I would say the majority will not by 91 or up.
It costs about and extra $3 per tank to run the recommended fuel, keep your timing from retarding, and giving you the rated mileage on the window sticker. To me it is really a mute issue.
Technically the lower the octane the more "power" gasoline has but that's not really true today with modern additives and remember there is about 10% ethanol in all gas that jacks all this stuff around depending on where you live.
Buy the premium and enjoy the ride you bought or don't and enjoy it just the same with retarded timing and less power. To each to their own.
I have built many engines...
Preignition or detonation is not your friend. In a modern engine it can still cause damage if a knock or harmonic sensor fails or reads incorrectly.
Computer controls allow the engine to sense for this so GM for example can sell performance cars to people who will not pony up for the more expensive gas. As crazy as that sounds I would say the majority will not by 91 or up.
It costs about and extra $3 per tank to run the recommended fuel, keep your timing from retarding, and giving you the rated mileage on the window sticker. To me it is really a mute issue.
Technically the lower the octane the more "power" gasoline has but that's not really true today with modern additives and remember there is about 10% ethanol in all gas that jacks all this stuff around depending on where you live.
Buy the premium and enjoy the ride you bought or don't and enjoy it just the same with retarded timing and less power. To each to their own.
08-30-2008, 03:08 PM
#43
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Join Date: 07-05-2008
Location: Akron Ohio
Posts: 5,464
08-30-2008, 03:15 PM
#44
Senior Member
Join Date: 07-05-2008
Location: Akron Ohio
Posts: 5,464
XXL nicely done.
I have built many engines...
Preignition or detonation is not your friend. In a modern engine it can still cause damage if a knock or harmonic sensor fails or reads incorrectly.
Computer controls allow the engine to sense for this so GM for example can sell performance cars to people who will not pony up for the more expensive gas. As crazy as that sounds I would say the majority will not by 91 or up.
It costs about and extra $3 per tank to run the recommended fuel, keep your timing from retarding, and giving you the rated mileage on the window sticker. To me it is really a mute issue.
Technically the lower the octane the more "power" gasoline has but that's not really true today with modern additives and remember there is about 10% ethanol in all gas that jacks all this stuff around depending on where you live.
Buy the premium and enjoy the ride you bought or don't and enjoy it just the same with retarded timing and less power. To each to their own.
I have built many engines...
Preignition or detonation is not your friend. In a modern engine it can still cause damage if a knock or harmonic sensor fails or reads incorrectly.
Computer controls allow the engine to sense for this so GM for example can sell performance cars to people who will not pony up for the more expensive gas. As crazy as that sounds I would say the majority will not by 91 or up.
It costs about and extra $3 per tank to run the recommended fuel, keep your timing from retarding, and giving you the rated mileage on the window sticker. To me it is really a mute issue.
Technically the lower the octane the more "power" gasoline has but that's not really true today with modern additives and remember there is about 10% ethanol in all gas that jacks all this stuff around depending on where you live.
Buy the premium and enjoy the ride you bought or don't and enjoy it just the same with retarded timing and less power. To each to their own.
Keep in mind most people here seldom run their SS hard in the daily commute, They seldom see the higher boost and never really tap into the power so the gas they are running is a non factor. This may be why many never notice the power loss.
In most large citys on street and freeways it is bumper to bumper so they never see 260 Hp. Or 20 pounds of boost.
08-30-2008, 06:23 PM
#45
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Join Date: 08-06-2007
Location: Edison, NJ
Posts: 359
You HHR SS people can quibble all you want. My HHR is an LS with a 2.2L engine so this is a non-issue for me.
I would love to own an SS. And if I did own an SS, I would be embarrassed to put 87 octane in the tank. Electronic engine controls can certainly compensate for octane rating deficiencies, but why even take a chance on something going wrong?
I would love to own an SS. And if I did own an SS, I would be embarrassed to put 87 octane in the tank. Electronic engine controls can certainly compensate for octane rating deficiencies, but why even take a chance on something going wrong?
08-30-2008, 06:44 PM
#46
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Join Date: 07-05-2008
Location: Akron Ohio
Posts: 5,464
You HHR SS people can quibble all you want. My HHR is an LS with a 2.2L engine so this is a non-issue for me.
I would love to own an SS. And if I did own an SS, I would be embarrassed to put 87 octane in the tank. Electronic engine controls can certainly compensate for octane rating deficiencies, but why even take a chance on something going wrong?
I would love to own an SS. And if I did own an SS, I would be embarrassed to put 87 octane in the tank. Electronic engine controls can certainly compensate for octane rating deficiencies, but why even take a chance on something going wrong?
I guess there is nothing else to talk about?
08-30-2008, 07:42 PM
#47
New Member
Join Date: 08-27-2008
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 21
Running greater than 87 is fine, but no where in these posts is there any proof that it is not fine in our engines....If you choose to run higher, then it is an emotional or performance choice, both of which are fine. There is no science supporting premium beyond performance insofar as damage to our engines...
08-30-2008, 07:46 PM
#48
Member
Join Date: 07-14-2008
Location: Waterloo, Ontario
Posts: 52
Since I purchased my SS I've alternated between 87 and 91 twice, and on the fifth tank on a whim I purchased 94. I consciously did this to determine what I was going to use on a regular basis.
My conclusions? 1st and 2nd gear you can really feel the difference betwen 87 and 91. I never heard any knocking or any problems at all, it just didn't have that 'punch' that you get with 91. I couldn't tell the difference between 91 and 94, so I've decided to use 91 from now on. I also got better mileage on the 91 than 87, it was pretty obvious.
I bought the car to drive it and enjoy it, and the 91 is worth it in my humble opinion.
My conclusions? 1st and 2nd gear you can really feel the difference betwen 87 and 91. I never heard any knocking or any problems at all, it just didn't have that 'punch' that you get with 91. I couldn't tell the difference between 91 and 94, so I've decided to use 91 from now on. I also got better mileage on the 91 than 87, it was pretty obvious.
I bought the car to drive it and enjoy it, and the 91 is worth it in my humble opinion.
08-30-2008, 08:55 PM
#49
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Join Date: 07-06-2008
Location: Mission Viejo, CA
Posts: 90
Keep in mind most people here seldom run their SS hard in the daily commute, They seldom see the higher boost and never really tap into the power so the gas they are running is a non factor. This may be why many never notice the power loss.
In most large citys on street and freeways it is bumper to bumper so they never see 260 Hp. Or 20 pounds of boost.
In most large citys on street and freeways it is bumper to bumper so they never see 260 Hp. Or 20 pounds of boost.
I understand your point but remember if a sensor fails to perform as designed and you run many miles with detonation (unaware) that would suck wouldn't it. Mild forms can destroy an engine over time.
This is what I am saying.
08-30-2008, 09:22 PM
#50
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Join Date: 07-05-2008
Location: Akron Ohio
Posts: 5,464
I have an Auto and have never seen more then 15 lbs of boost.
I understand your point but remember if a sensor fails to perform as designed and you run many miles with detonation (unaware) that would suck wouldn't it. Mild forms can destroy an engine over time.
This is what I am saying.
I understand your point but remember if a sensor fails to perform as designed and you run many miles with detonation (unaware) that would suck wouldn't it. Mild forms can destroy an engine over time.
This is what I am saying.
The computer need these sensors to operate and if they fail the light goes off and tells you something is wrong. GM also points out that the car can be driven but it is in a fail safe mode that will get you the nearest dealer or repair shop.
I say we have a show of hands here on anyone who regularly uses 87 and has had a engine damage or failure because of it in either a 2.4, 2.0 turbo or 3800 SC Series III.
The only 3800 SC Series III failures on the GP web site I have seen are from some engine programers that were not sorted out well and they broke pistons and trannys on 91. But that was not a GM issue.
Don't under estimate GM on their drivetrains. You can drive a Northstar 50 miles with no coolant. They did this and state this to protect the engine. GM does many things with the computers that protect us from ourselves.