What's next
12-31-2010, 11:22 AM
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: 11-08-2009
Location: Los Angeles, Dallas, New York
Posts: 220
What's next
After the HHR SS, what will you buy next.
I have a hhr ss and a Mitsubishi Evo 8. Bought the SS lightly used, the Evo new.
The reason I mention these two cars is they are very different, but in ways very similar as both were inexpensive small economy cars that have been factory hot rodded.
The difference between the cars is the EVO is much better built and feels like it will last for 10 years. (I've had it for 5), where the SS feels like in 5 years I probably will replace most of the small running gear of the car.
The Evo I've hammered and other than brake pads and a clutch, everything holds up where the SS I drive fast, but more carefully and I've replaced, Brakes, Fuel Pump, issues with the turbo upgrade and the the transmission (auto) seems a little strange lately.
Given this the prices are way different. Where as the EVO is new about $10,000 higher, it also holds it value much better. Used to about double of the SS, year to year.
Still, in day to day use, I'd much rather drive the SS. It has more utility drives much smoother, I love on-star and for living in LA it's almost the perfect sized vehicle. The SS also gets almost 2.3's better gas mileage than the EVO.
The SS I've used for long trips, the EVO I would never dream of driving for a long distance.
Both cars get the same amount of attention and same compliments, usually from the same young age group, which leaves me to believe GM screwed the pooch on the marketing of the SS.
LA is car crazy and import crazy but the SS holds it on in the wow how cool meter.
Had GM really advertised it as a performance car, given it a little more robust build quality and continued on with the SS tradition in a successor I think they would have a halo car, much like the EVO and the STI.
Had GM offered it with 4wd to mitigate the torque steer and done what the foreign makers did by offering a whole series of upgrades, they could have moved the SS brand into a modern halo series, rather than just stick with the Camaro, which is an ok car, but is built in yesterday's mindset of heavy car, big engine.
As much as I love the sound of a big V8, I believe the days of big heavy cars are numbered.
The strange thing is once my HHR is used up, there is nowhere to go to replace it. The Regal GS seems interesting, but doesn't have the utility, the Cruize just makes me want to go to sleep and the only real hot small wagon out there is the Audi R series, which sells for a lot more than anything but the Cadillac and I'm not too wild about saying, yea, I drive a Cadillac.
It's not that GM can't up it's game. Look at the Opel Sports Wagon with 325 HP.
http://com.opel-microsites.com/opc/
Then look at the performance options Opel offers, from sports driving training, to upgrades. This is the way to go forward.
IMO
JR
I have a hhr ss and a Mitsubishi Evo 8. Bought the SS lightly used, the Evo new.
The reason I mention these two cars is they are very different, but in ways very similar as both were inexpensive small economy cars that have been factory hot rodded.
The difference between the cars is the EVO is much better built and feels like it will last for 10 years. (I've had it for 5), where the SS feels like in 5 years I probably will replace most of the small running gear of the car.
The Evo I've hammered and other than brake pads and a clutch, everything holds up where the SS I drive fast, but more carefully and I've replaced, Brakes, Fuel Pump, issues with the turbo upgrade and the the transmission (auto) seems a little strange lately.
Given this the prices are way different. Where as the EVO is new about $10,000 higher, it also holds it value much better. Used to about double of the SS, year to year.
Still, in day to day use, I'd much rather drive the SS. It has more utility drives much smoother, I love on-star and for living in LA it's almost the perfect sized vehicle. The SS also gets almost 2.3's better gas mileage than the EVO.
The SS I've used for long trips, the EVO I would never dream of driving for a long distance.
Both cars get the same amount of attention and same compliments, usually from the same young age group, which leaves me to believe GM screwed the pooch on the marketing of the SS.
LA is car crazy and import crazy but the SS holds it on in the wow how cool meter.
Had GM really advertised it as a performance car, given it a little more robust build quality and continued on with the SS tradition in a successor I think they would have a halo car, much like the EVO and the STI.
Had GM offered it with 4wd to mitigate the torque steer and done what the foreign makers did by offering a whole series of upgrades, they could have moved the SS brand into a modern halo series, rather than just stick with the Camaro, which is an ok car, but is built in yesterday's mindset of heavy car, big engine.
As much as I love the sound of a big V8, I believe the days of big heavy cars are numbered.
The strange thing is once my HHR is used up, there is nowhere to go to replace it. The Regal GS seems interesting, but doesn't have the utility, the Cruize just makes me want to go to sleep and the only real hot small wagon out there is the Audi R series, which sells for a lot more than anything but the Cadillac and I'm not too wild about saying, yea, I drive a Cadillac.
It's not that GM can't up it's game. Look at the Opel Sports Wagon with 325 HP.
http://com.opel-microsites.com/opc/
Then look at the performance options Opel offers, from sports driving training, to upgrades. This is the way to go forward.
IMO
JR
12-31-2010, 12:52 PM
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: 07-05-2008
Location: Akron Ohio
Posts: 5,464
I do agree with you on the lack of Marketing. But GM really marketed few cars well prior to the Chapter 11 deal. They really had little money. The fact the HHR itself was selling well they were not going to spend a lot of money on a SS that would have even if it sold better still been low volume car.
As for things like AWD and such. It is easy to say lets put it on but much harder to get someone to pay the over $30K price it would have had on the sticker. With the SS sticker already at $28K it would have taken it over and with out any quality upgrades to go with it.
When building the car and setting it for a market you need to keep price in line. GM is walking this line with Buick now. Keep it affordable but make the better than a Chevy but keep it cheaper than a Cadillac. Not an easy feat. Once you get over $30K There are many good cars to choose from and that make it harder to sell a car like the HHR based on a economical entry compact car.
As for the future we have not really seen much of the post chapter 11 GM yet. All the cars like the Regal, Cruze, Lecrosse and even the new up coming Malibu are all cars that were done before the chapter 11. GM did a big rush to get these cars done so they would have product to sell after the chapter 11 till they could use the new funds to build the new product that they really wanted to do.
We have the new Alpha Platform coming. It will be a RWD and AWD able platform. It is going to be lighter than the Zeta and able to be expanded to be used for cars as large as the CTS. Cadillac will use this car first for the ATS line and Chevy first with a Camaro and them for a small sport sedan. This platform will use 4,6,8 cylinder engines and give GM a much better plaform for future cars.
Unanounced are many new cars that are being worked on like the Granite and many others we have yet to be shown. The fact is GM no longer needs to show us a Camaro 5 years in advance to try to keep the stock up to survive. We will now only see product when they want us to and will only release info closer to intro.
We also will see more sharing of Opel and Holden platforms with the American lines. I would expect the Opel GTC Paris show could to make the states as a Buick. it was smaller than a HHR but had the 300 HP 2.0 Turbo. Think of it as a stylish Mini fighter.
Opel GTC Paris 300 HP 2.0 Turbo
GMC Granite Pick up
Note this sedan is a photo shop from a GM insider. It represent approx what we can expect in the new Chevy sports sedan. It may be on a updated lighter Zetra. It is expected as a 2014
This is a GM teaser of what direction post Chapter Buick is looking.
Either way it is too soon to judge GM's future as they have really not shown it to us yet. I know a couple people who are working on new things. While they can not say what they have seen and what they are doing they are more excited than ever on new product. They are now able to do things they could not do just a few years ago.
FYI there will be more wagons in the future. Some Buick Regals have already been spotted.
The bottom line is all is not lost. Judge GM on what we have in the show room by 2014-2015 and not today. It will be a very different show room. Trust me.
As for things like AWD and such. It is easy to say lets put it on but much harder to get someone to pay the over $30K price it would have had on the sticker. With the SS sticker already at $28K it would have taken it over and with out any quality upgrades to go with it.
When building the car and setting it for a market you need to keep price in line. GM is walking this line with Buick now. Keep it affordable but make the better than a Chevy but keep it cheaper than a Cadillac. Not an easy feat. Once you get over $30K There are many good cars to choose from and that make it harder to sell a car like the HHR based on a economical entry compact car.
As for the future we have not really seen much of the post chapter 11 GM yet. All the cars like the Regal, Cruze, Lecrosse and even the new up coming Malibu are all cars that were done before the chapter 11. GM did a big rush to get these cars done so they would have product to sell after the chapter 11 till they could use the new funds to build the new product that they really wanted to do.
We have the new Alpha Platform coming. It will be a RWD and AWD able platform. It is going to be lighter than the Zeta and able to be expanded to be used for cars as large as the CTS. Cadillac will use this car first for the ATS line and Chevy first with a Camaro and them for a small sport sedan. This platform will use 4,6,8 cylinder engines and give GM a much better plaform for future cars.
Unanounced are many new cars that are being worked on like the Granite and many others we have yet to be shown. The fact is GM no longer needs to show us a Camaro 5 years in advance to try to keep the stock up to survive. We will now only see product when they want us to and will only release info closer to intro.
We also will see more sharing of Opel and Holden platforms with the American lines. I would expect the Opel GTC Paris show could to make the states as a Buick. it was smaller than a HHR but had the 300 HP 2.0 Turbo. Think of it as a stylish Mini fighter.
Opel GTC Paris 300 HP 2.0 Turbo
GMC Granite Pick up
Note this sedan is a photo shop from a GM insider. It represent approx what we can expect in the new Chevy sports sedan. It may be on a updated lighter Zetra. It is expected as a 2014
This is a GM teaser of what direction post Chapter Buick is looking.
Either way it is too soon to judge GM's future as they have really not shown it to us yet. I know a couple people who are working on new things. While they can not say what they have seen and what they are doing they are more excited than ever on new product. They are now able to do things they could not do just a few years ago.
FYI there will be more wagons in the future. Some Buick Regals have already been spotted.
The bottom line is all is not lost. Judge GM on what we have in the show room by 2014-2015 and not today. It will be a very different show room. Trust me.
12-31-2010, 01:01 PM
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: 09-14-2009
Location: Vancouver Island, BC
Posts: 262
Ford Focus ST has to be at the top of the list.... or RS if they make one again and sell it in N.A.
Mazda RX8 would be one I would seriously consider
Fiat 500 Abarth is cool.
Volvo C30 is interesting.
Mazdaspeed 3 might be worth a look and is probably the closest thing to the HHR SS. It fits the bill as a small wagon, which isn't as pricey as the Audi. A friend has one and loves it.
I'm afraid there is nothing in the Chevy line-up that excites me unless they come out with the Aveo RS or Cruze SS. I would have to look at those....
Mazda RX8 would be one I would seriously consider
Fiat 500 Abarth is cool.
Volvo C30 is interesting.
Mazdaspeed 3 might be worth a look and is probably the closest thing to the HHR SS. It fits the bill as a small wagon, which isn't as pricey as the Audi. A friend has one and loves it.
I'm afraid there is nothing in the Chevy line-up that excites me unless they come out with the Aveo RS or Cruze SS. I would have to look at those....
12-31-2010, 01:06 PM
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: 08-20-2006
Location: Hillsdale, Michigan
Posts: 21,640
Also, if you are into aftermarket modifying you know it will be there for the Focus. It has had a huge following since its inception.
12-31-2010, 01:16 PM
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: 07-05-2008
Location: Akron Ohio
Posts: 5,464
Ford Focus ST has to be at the top of the list.... or RS if they make one again and sell it in N.A.
Mazda RX8 would be one I would seriously consider
Fiat 500 Abarth is cool.
Volvo C30 is interesting.
Mazdaspeed 3 might be worth a look and is probably the closest thing to the HHR SS. It fits the bill as a small wagon, which isn't as pricey as the Audi. A friend has one and loves it.
I'm afraid there is nothing in the Chevy line-up that excites me unless they come out with the Aveo RS or Cruze SS. I would have to look at those....
Mazda RX8 would be one I would seriously consider
Fiat 500 Abarth is cool.
Volvo C30 is interesting.
Mazdaspeed 3 might be worth a look and is probably the closest thing to the HHR SS. It fits the bill as a small wagon, which isn't as pricey as the Audi. A friend has one and loves it.
I'm afraid there is nothing in the Chevy line-up that excites me unless they come out with the Aveo RS or Cruze SS. I would have to look at those....
12-31-2010, 01:41 PM
#6
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: 11-08-2009
Location: Los Angeles, Dallas, New York
Posts: 220
I do agree with you on the lack of Marketing. But GM really marketed few cars well prior to the Chapter 11 deal. They really had little money. The fact the HHR itself was selling well they were not going to spend a lot of money on a SS that would have even if it sold better still been low volume car.
As for things like AWD and such. It is easy to say lets put it on but much harder to get someone to pay the over $30K price it would have had on the sticker. With the SS sticker already at $28K it would have taken it over and with out any quality upgrades to go with it.
As for things like AWD and such. It is easy to say lets put it on but much harder to get someone to pay the over $30K price it would have had on the sticker. With the SS sticker already at $28K it would have taken it over and with out any quality upgrades to go with it.
Lately, I've been to the chevy dealer 3 times and nothing on the lot or showroom is exciting. The cruize is a bore, The Malibu is not ugly but not exciting, the Camaros are mostly yellow or orange and makes me feel like I should get a job at a Burger King, lots of corvettes, (every dealer seems to have a zo6 on the floor) and every dealer has about 20 billion tahoes on the lot.
I own three gm cars and want all American cars to succeed, but go to Europe, look at the Opels, the Fords in Europe and you go wow, those are exciting cars.
I know Americans are loathe to drop over $30,000 on a small car, but like the HHR has proven if packaged right a small car can do the work of a larger car, get better mileage, offer a better driving experience and not burn through $100 of petrol every time you pass a shell station.
As far as not having money for advertising, well I'm biased because I'm in advertising, but you can't sell anything world wide without top drawer marketing.
As far as advertising not moving any hhr ss's to make them profitable, then do the math. An added 10,000 sales of a discounted $25,000 car is 250 million dollars.
That's nothing to sneeze at considering the R+D had already been completed and the investment spent on the SS.
Really is it that difficult to keep the line open for 4 more months?
Why not sell some more?
IMO
JR
P.S. It would help if GM spent some money on dealer training, especially in Sales. While waiting for my car the other day, the things the sales person tells me about cars is frightening and so wrong.
If I was going to buy a car I would have left the showroom screaming.
12-31-2010, 01:55 PM
#7
Member
Join Date: 05-07-2010
Location: Ardmore Al
Posts: 43
I am totally up in the air about this one. I like the looks of the Focus, Fiat and the Volvo. I also like the new crop of Muscle that is available. But as far as a direct replacement for the HHR, gotta say it would have to be the Focus, given the fact that it is marketed well in Europe. I to agree that GM, Ford and others need to go Europe, not just for the fact that they get cooler cars, but also they rely on diesel power. I feel that if American Co's are to suceed over here, we need more engine options, not just hybrids.
12-31-2010, 01:57 PM
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: 09-14-2009
Location: Vancouver Island, BC
Posts: 262
P.S. It would help if GM spent some money on dealer training, especially in Sales. While waiting for my car the other day, the things the sales person tells me about cars is frightening and so wrong.
If I was going to buy a car I would have left the showroom screaming.
If I was going to buy a car I would have left the showroom screaming.
If I didn't know much about Chevy cars and had to rely on her to educate me about what was on their car lot, I would have walked away even less informed!! haha Her knowledge about the cars she was trying to sell was rather pathetic.
12-31-2010, 04:07 PM
#9
Platinum Member
Join Date: 05-09-2006
Location: "Upland" Mesa, Arizona
Posts: 6,805
It is not the responsibility of GM Corporation to train the sales people. IT IS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE DEALERSHIP, WHO IS/ARE A PRIVATE ENTITY. In other words, the dealership is not owned by GM.
While GM does conduct some instruction/classes in salesmanship, it is dealer management/ownership responsibility to train independent of GM and/or to arrange training with GM.
But I agree with you statement in general. Sales people should be trained better and have more knowledge of their product.
I think the level of skill of a sales person, is dependent on the economy. As the economy goes "south" the dealer loses competent people to more volume oriented dealers. The low volume dealer is compelled to hire unskilled or entry level work force. At least that has been my experience in Arizona (and based on conversations dealership management).
While GM does conduct some instruction/classes in salesmanship, it is dealer management/ownership responsibility to train independent of GM and/or to arrange training with GM.
But I agree with you statement in general. Sales people should be trained better and have more knowledge of their product.
I think the level of skill of a sales person, is dependent on the economy. As the economy goes "south" the dealer loses competent people to more volume oriented dealers. The low volume dealer is compelled to hire unskilled or entry level work force. At least that has been my experience in Arizona (and based on conversations dealership management).
