geg

8. Donbass, formerly Little Russia, is precisely the very lands that Lenin, by a strong-willed decision, tore off from legal Russia and annexed to legal Ukraine. At the same time, the Russian population of Donbass has always remained Russian and did not welcome such changes at the everyday level. To make it clearer, Donbass is essentially very similar to the American Rust Belt. Industrial areas, factories, coal mines. And the corresponding population - workers, miners. Severe, not verbose men with strong hands and deep roots. Like the heroes of Bruce Springsteen songs, only Russians. Legalized Nazis understood that as long as such people were alive, their ambitions were under threat. Therefore, an ultimatum was delivered to the population: either you renounce your culture and the Russian language, or you will die. To implement this threat, so-called “friendship trains” went to all pro-Russian regions of the country. Scum of all stripes, hooligans, criminals, football fans kicked passengers out of trains, stuffed themselves into cars and went to pro-Russian cities to intimidate some, intimidate some, and simply kill those who resist. In Crimea, they failed. First, they were met by local residents, then the sailors of the Russian Black Sea Fleet, which has been based in the Crimea for several centuries, joined in. Crimea was lost to the Nazis. Odessa, Nikolaev, Kherson, Kharkov, on the contrary, could not withstand the onslaught, the result is a massacre and demonstrative murders. Donbass did not obey. The residents of Donbass simply said that now they are Russia again, and if someone does not agree, let them come and taste the miner's fist. Thus, two unrecognized republics were formed on the territory of Donbass: the Donetsk People's Republic (DPR) and the Lugansk People's Republic (LPR). The Nazis retreated, but after a while they returned again. Already like the National Guard of Ukraine, with tanks, guns and other modern weapons. But this did not impress the Donbas mans. They simply took away part of the weapon from the enemy, bought part of the weapon from him. You will be surprised, but the Nazi soldiers were happy to sell cartridges, machine guns and even tanks to their opponents. Just to earn. Of course, Russia also helped, not publicly, donated weapons and did not interfere with volunteers. After a few months of fighting, the Donetsk and Luhansk militia were already so strong that they smashed the Nazis in all directions. They just killed them like rabid dogs. The Ukrainian government asked for mercy, said that it was ready to make concessions. Negotiations began in Minsk (Belarus). Result: on September 5, 2014, the so-called “Minsk agreements” were signed, the essence of which was that Donbass does not secede from Ukraine, and the Ukrainian government refuses to force Ukrainization of the region, recognizes the right of Russians to their language and culture. In addition, a line of demarcation of troops was established: the Nazis, i.e. national guards of Ukraine on one side, the people's militia on the other. Germany, France and Russia became guarantors of compliance with the Minsk agreements. France and Germany should encourage Ukraine to fulfill its obligations, Russia should control the Donbass authorities. The Minsk agreements were not implemented. Our authorities say that Ukraine sabotaged its obligations, and France and Germany simply withdrew (seems to be true). Western rulers report that it is Russia that is not fulfilling its part of the Minsk agreements, although Russia is not a party to these agreements and physically cannot or will not comply with any of them.

But back to the troops deployed on different sides. Ukrainian troops on the other side of the demarcation line can be divided into two parts. Regular troops of Ukraine and the National Guard of Ukraine (National Guard or National Battalions). The regular army of Ukraine is not happy with its position. Ukrainian soldiers are ordinary people who do not support Nazi ideology. These are both Russians and non-Russians, but quite sane people who do not have a personal hatred for the inhabitants of Donbass, the Donbass people's militia also has no particular complaints about the regular army of Ukraine. The usual practice was situations when the commanders of the regular Ukrainian army, having received an order to shell the Donbass, called up the command of the people's militia and discussed this event. Time was appointed, targets were named where the shells would fall from both sides, they warned about the early evacuation of the civilian population and the removal of valuables, the withdrawal of military personnel from under attack. Everything was done so that the order of the command was carried out, but there were no deaths. Nazi battalions are another matter. They hate Russians and, in my opinion, everyone in general, except for themselves and their Bandera. These *******s try to shoot a lot and regularly, aiming at civilians. On the territories of their base, they arrange a genocide of the local population (they the Westerners and count Eastern Slavs to be subhuman), and they do not feel sorry for the Russians. Prisons, torture, rape. I will not describe the horrors that the Nazis create. Read a book about the fascist camps of the 2nd World War, you will find out everything yourself. The people's militia does not forgive the Nazis, although they also do not made retaliatory torture and executions.

When I wrote that I have been seeing oldwomen and children killed by Nazi bombs since 2014 and the number is already in the thousands, when I wrote that the Nazis are organizing the genocide of the Russian population, I meant the Russian residents of Donbass living on primordially Russian lands, only by misunderstanding found themselves outside the homeland. And when I wrote about the Nazis, I meant the very National Battalions that have not yet been driven out of the Donbass.

9. You probably have a question why the National Battalions remain on the land of Donbass. It is unlikely that they are so strong that the Russian army cannot defeat them. Of course it can, but you must understand: a Russian soldier is not on enemy territory, he is walking on his own land, inhabited by the same Russian population. It is impossible to arrange a shaft of fire, burning everything with bombs and napalm. Russians must not kill Russians, civilians must not be endangered, infrastructure and housing must not be destroyed. Therefore, the army moves slowly, acts cautiously, surgically precise. In addition, it is necessary to distinguish between the Regular Forces and the National Guard, so as not to provoke unnecessary losses, Ukrainian soldiers are not our enemies, as strange as it sounds. For example, in Russian hospitals, Russian and Ukrainian servicemen lie not just in the same building, on adjacent beds and do not conflict in any way. The Russian army guards the zone of the Chernobyl nuclear power plant together with the Ukrainian army, the military personnel of both structures do not allow the Nazis to nuclear reactors in order not to allow them to arrange a nuclear provocation. West ern media claim this is the weakness of Russian weapons. The Russians are stuck in Ukraine like in Afghanistan. Do not confuse respect and politeness with weakness. Proof: literally this week, mercenaries from countries not friendly to Russia arrived on the territory of Ukraine, they began to deploy on the border with Poland. Several hundred (maybe thousands) of special forces veterans: former French legionnaires, British SAS, some Croats (it turns out that there are Nazis in Croatia too), even South Korean special forces. Unfortunately, there were also employees of a private military company from the USA and Canada, quite famous. They were warned by the Russian command that their presence was not desirable, they were given the opportunity to return home. They were honestly warned that the Russian army is trying not to kill Ukrainian servicemen, but Russia will not spare mercenaries and will not take prisoners. The mercenaries did not believe the Russians, they believed the Western media reports about the weakness of the Russian army. Those few of them who survived warn their colleagues in their blogs not to travel to Ukraine. The flow of mercenaries to Ukraine has stopped.

This is how it is with Ukraine. I tried to tell you everything I know myself. Without lies and without embellishment.

If you have any questions - write, I will try to answer as much as possible actively.

donbrew

The problem Americans have is the entire European concept of "ethnic population" and forcing a region into a "country" by conquest. We did it in the past, admittedly.

We don't know how you can identify a Croatian from a Ukrainian by sight. Different hats? We don't think that way. Race is a different subject that we have our own problem with.

Pretty funny, the Russian army is trying not kill, but bombing schools, hospitals and private apartment buildings.

During WWII, the German Nazis subjugated Ukraine, I don't understand why Ukraine would embrace the idea. Russia doesn't have a much better record than Nazis vis the Jewish population or any other ethnic group..

I appreciate your explanation.
"

geg

no thanks, buddy.
True, I got the impression that you did not read everything, or that I was not convincing enough. All the same, my English is complete nonsense, I should not have made such a large and clumsy text.
All in all, never mind. Live calmly and do not think too much about the internal Slavic showdowns. The main thing is to practice healthy skepticism, do not take for granted everything that is said on TV and do not allow people dear to you to cross the border of Ukraine until it is calm there. In Russia - you can.

donbrew

Evidently, The translation of my post was pretty poor. I was just saying WE in the US don't understand "ethnic population" or "conquest"
We make no distinction between a Texan and a Oklahoman on the grounds of ethnicity. And Texas would not consider taking military action in Oklahoma in behalf of ethic Texans in a county.

That is what it looks like to us. Europe is very different in that regard, we are a baby country with new experiences, our fore fathers left Europe to change things like that.

lazaino

Nazis still exist. Certainly in the USA and Germany and likely in small enclaves scattered around the world. And they or their equally despicable counterparts will continue to exist as long as parents, schools and others allow and teach hate. While you claim we're only listening to our side, all I hear from you is an echo of the Russian(Putin's) platform and claims. Have you seen the pictures of Mariupol? A city in which almost every building has been hit by Russian arms. How can you look at that and believe what you say? Do you believe every building in that city was a military target?

Ira

PulpFriction

If you choose to write a book for a forum post, don’t complain if some doesn’t read the whole thing.

TLDR = To Long, Didn’t Read. A TLDR can also be a noun, a summarizing statement included by the author for the benefit of those lacking the time or inclination to read it all - appreciated courtesy that might even entice some to read it all, after all.

This is an interesting perspective, discusses the invasion as a colossal miscalculation.The whole article:

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...ar-brian-klaas

PulpFriction

The headline reads, “Coinciding with Biden visit to Poland, Russia signals scaled-back goals in Ukraine”The whole story:
latimes.com/world-nation/story/2022-03-25/ukraine-russia-war-biden-heads-to-poland

Then there’s this:

theatlantic.com/international/archive/2022/03/international-news-russia-kremlin-media-censorship/627120/

geg

Hi guys.
If you go back to the beginning of this thread, you will see that I didn't really want to develop develop it. Just to avoid confrontation. Now, I still don't
want to get involved in unproductive arguments. Donbrew asked me to explain to him about Ukraine - I told him all what I know. It was immediately clear that this does not coincide with the dominant opinion in the U.S - I read the Western press a couple of times a week. But frankly I am calm about this reality. I don't set out to change your mind. I won't get dividends from changing your opinion. And this forum is not the place for it.

PS. Unfortunately, I can not personally look at Mariupol as well as you, far from me. Maybe later.

PulpFriction

I realize my prior comments about your long comments could be misconstrued. I appreciate your efforts, they are well written, certainly better than you think, and I found them instructive. I do might myself more than a little surprised that a significant motive for this adventure is to fight naziism. Have the U.S., the E.U., and so many others been duped? Either way, the price of this confrontation appears to be beyond anyone’s expectations.

Sorry, the direct link to this article hits a paywall, so only the persistent can read it in its entirety, but the main point can be read in the first coupe, of paragraphs: