wHAT A DUMB IDEA
09-09-2009, 02:27 PM
#21
Senior Member
Join Date: 02-01-2006
Location: lockport,ny
Posts: 1,378
We need to distinguish between health CARE and health INSURANCE.
Anyone going to a public hospital will be treated regardless of their ability to pay.
This is just another attempt by some in the government to exact control over another segment of the economy. Government control is not the answer. Greedy insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies? I'm sure there are some. Better to give control to politicians and their corrupt appointees? I don't think so. With private control at least you have some competition. With the government, take it or leave it with no alternatives.
My friend married a woman that has many relatives in Canada. His 73 year old aunt was diagnosed with breast cancer. She was then told that the waiting time would be over a year to get treatment. Luckily she had enough money to come here for treatment.
I am not against helping the poor (I am personally involved in numerous food pantries, etc) but that really isn't the issue here. The proposed plan would trash a system that works for the vast majority of the people and replace it with one that harms the vast majority in the long run. There are much better ways to help the situation.
Government-run healthcare always tends toward limiting care of the "unproductive" such as the elderly, which is effectively euthanasia. This is clear in many countries, especially the Netherlands. Yes, people will say they can go to the doctor for free for every little thing, but don't get a serious illness-you might be out of luck.
Steve
Anyone going to a public hospital will be treated regardless of their ability to pay.
This is just another attempt by some in the government to exact control over another segment of the economy. Government control is not the answer. Greedy insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies? I'm sure there are some. Better to give control to politicians and their corrupt appointees? I don't think so. With private control at least you have some competition. With the government, take it or leave it with no alternatives.
My friend married a woman that has many relatives in Canada. His 73 year old aunt was diagnosed with breast cancer. She was then told that the waiting time would be over a year to get treatment. Luckily she had enough money to come here for treatment.
I am not against helping the poor (I am personally involved in numerous food pantries, etc) but that really isn't the issue here. The proposed plan would trash a system that works for the vast majority of the people and replace it with one that harms the vast majority in the long run. There are much better ways to help the situation.
Government-run healthcare always tends toward limiting care of the "unproductive" such as the elderly, which is effectively euthanasia. This is clear in many countries, especially the Netherlands. Yes, people will say they can go to the doctor for free for every little thing, but don't get a serious illness-you might be out of luck.
Steve
09-09-2009, 03:03 PM
#22
Senior Member
Join Date: 03-26-2008
Location: Calgary
Posts: 264
A friend had a cancer diagnosis, and in 2 weeks he had his operation. In Canada it is a "Who Needs It the most' line up.
09-09-2009, 03:17 PM
#23
Senior Member
Join Date: 04-30-2006
Location: Maryland Heights, MO
Posts: 9,149
Just a few thoughts/statements.............
Because of many years of working in the restaraunt industry where insurace is not normal, I was forced to go to the emergency room for my primary care becuase I did not make enough to pay for my own insurance. Yes, I was treated, not turned away. I was still charged though. After several years during a period I struggled to control my asthma, I was basically forced to declare backruptcy because of ~$10,000 dollars in medical bills.
I have worked very hard all of my life, the last 8+ years in jobs which had outstanding insurance. However, I am now out of work, going to school and have no insurance. For my wife to add me to her policy would cost us over $500 per month. My perscription which keep me out of the hospital for my asthma and high blood pressure cost over $400 per month w/o insurance. I recently orderded my meds from Canada, a three month supply for $360.
No one can tell me that reform is not badly needed. I am NOT lazy or trying to live off of any system. Just trying to stay alive!
Because of many years of working in the restaraunt industry where insurace is not normal, I was forced to go to the emergency room for my primary care becuase I did not make enough to pay for my own insurance. Yes, I was treated, not turned away. I was still charged though. After several years during a period I struggled to control my asthma, I was basically forced to declare backruptcy because of ~$10,000 dollars in medical bills.
I have worked very hard all of my life, the last 8+ years in jobs which had outstanding insurance. However, I am now out of work, going to school and have no insurance. For my wife to add me to her policy would cost us over $500 per month. My perscription which keep me out of the hospital for my asthma and high blood pressure cost over $400 per month w/o insurance. I recently orderded my meds from Canada, a three month supply for $360.
No one can tell me that reform is not badly needed. I am NOT lazy or trying to live off of any system. Just trying to stay alive!
09-09-2009, 03:30 PM
#24
Senior Member
Join Date: 01-24-2008
Location: USA
Posts: 725
Just a few thoughts/statements.............
Because of many years of working in the restaraunt industry where insurace is not normal, I was forced to go to the emergency room for my primary care becuase I did not make enough to pay for my own insurance. Yes, I was treated, not turned away. I was still charged though. After several years during a period I struggled to control my asthma, I was basically forced to declare backruptcy because of ~$10,000 dollars in medical bills.
I have worked very hard all of my life, the last 8+ years in jobs which had outstanding insurance. However, I am now out of work, going to school and have no insurance. For my wife to add me to her policy would cost us over $500 per month. My perscription which keep me out of the hospital for my asthma and high blood pressure cost over $400 per month w/o insurance. I recently orderded my meds from Canada, a three month supply for $360.
No one can tell me that reform is not badly needed. I am NOT lazy or trying to live off of any system. Just trying to stay alive!
Because of many years of working in the restaraunt industry where insurace is not normal, I was forced to go to the emergency room for my primary care becuase I did not make enough to pay for my own insurance. Yes, I was treated, not turned away. I was still charged though. After several years during a period I struggled to control my asthma, I was basically forced to declare backruptcy because of ~$10,000 dollars in medical bills.
I have worked very hard all of my life, the last 8+ years in jobs which had outstanding insurance. However, I am now out of work, going to school and have no insurance. For my wife to add me to her policy would cost us over $500 per month. My perscription which keep me out of the hospital for my asthma and high blood pressure cost over $400 per month w/o insurance. I recently orderded my meds from Canada, a three month supply for $360.
No one can tell me that reform is not badly needed. I am NOT lazy or trying to live off of any system. Just trying to stay alive!
09-09-2009, 11:42 PM
#25
Senior Member
Join Date: 04-19-2009
Location: Green Bay
Posts: 385
Just a few thoughts/statements.............
Because of many years of working in the restaraunt industry where insurace is not normal, I was forced to go to the emergency room for my primary care becuase I did not make enough to pay for my own insurance. Yes, I was treated, not turned away. I was still charged though. After several years during a period I struggled to control my asthma, I was basically forced to declare backruptcy because of ~$10,000 dollars in medical bills.
I have worked very hard all of my life, the last 8+ years in jobs which had outstanding insurance. However, I am now out of work, going to school and have no insurance. For my wife to add me to her policy would cost us over $500 per month. My perscription which keep me out of the hospital for my asthma and high blood pressure cost over $400 per month w/o insurance. I recently orderded my meds from Canada, a three month supply for $360.
No one can tell me that reform is not badly needed. I am NOT lazy or trying to live off of any system. Just trying to stay alive!
Because of many years of working in the restaraunt industry where insurace is not normal, I was forced to go to the emergency room for my primary care becuase I did not make enough to pay for my own insurance. Yes, I was treated, not turned away. I was still charged though. After several years during a period I struggled to control my asthma, I was basically forced to declare backruptcy because of ~$10,000 dollars in medical bills.
I have worked very hard all of my life, the last 8+ years in jobs which had outstanding insurance. However, I am now out of work, going to school and have no insurance. For my wife to add me to her policy would cost us over $500 per month. My perscription which keep me out of the hospital for my asthma and high blood pressure cost over $400 per month w/o insurance. I recently orderded my meds from Canada, a three month supply for $360.
No one can tell me that reform is not badly needed. I am NOT lazy or trying to live off of any system. Just trying to stay alive!
I think healthcare has issues that need to be fixed especially for those w/ previous conditions. They also need to deal w/ the cost of when everyone sues for every little thing. Doctors cost for insurance are just crazy and it gets passed on to us. They also order every test under the sun to cover their butts.
I can honestly say that I have insurance through my wifes work (local hospital) and am very blessed to have it. But we also go w/ out cable, going out eat all the time (only go out twice a month), no smart phones w/ no data plans texting iternet ect., and hardly go to movies. (once every few months and usually at the budget theater) Most of our friends do the above things regularly and spend houndres amonth on these things, and many of these same friends have no insurance and will be the first to complain about not being able to afford their medical bills if something happnes. One quick story and I will end this long post. Me and my wife are 24 and got married the biginning of augest 2008. We were blessed to be able to afford a week stay at a Sandals resort in Jamaica. And our first week back (2nd week of marriage) I took my wife to the ER at 2:00 am. She collopsed on the floor in pain and ended up being a kidney stone. (had to do w/ dehydration on the honeymoon.) They ran a bunch of test and scans and the 3 hours in the ER came back costing us about $5,000. Thankfully we only had to pay $1,500 of it out of our pocket and we had the money. This is what insurance is suppose to be for things that cost alot of money like this, not for your kids cold or flu. Dont go to the doctor for every little thing, I refuse to go to the doctor for little things and I eve have insurance. Oh ya and on a side note I was working at a moving company at the time my wife had a the kidney stones, and only slept for about 3 hours that night before going into work the next day. Well needless to say after about 10 hours of work I threw out my back and missed the next week of work, that was a rough first week home of marriage.
Well sorry for the long post, but I believe insurance is for the major things. I would not use or get car insurance for every little ding or stone chip, and I will not go to the doctor for every cold or flu.
09-09-2009, 11:56 PM
#26
Senior Member
Join Date: 05-06-2008
Location: Over here
Posts: 1,076
...almost everyone has the opportunity for insurance.
See http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/hlthi...c/hihistt8.xls for a tabular breakdown of the data that went into the report.
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09-10-2009, 12:50 AM
#27
Member
Join Date: 07-26-2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 31
"Took you years to finally land a job with benefits". In other words, took years to find a kind employer to pay your way. And yes, that's what I'm saying. It is an employer's responsibility to provide health insurance for its employees.
And by the way, we are all paying for your health insurance benefits even now - his/her prices had to be raised to the public to cover this. You pay for my wife's health insurance - she's a government worker. We paid for GM employees health insurance in the price of our HHRs, etc.
And by the way, we are all paying for your health insurance benefits even now - his/her prices had to be raised to the public to cover this. You pay for my wife's health insurance - she's a government worker. We paid for GM employees health insurance in the price of our HHRs, etc.
And by the way, you are not paying for anything for me. I am retired and am paying $750 a month for health insurance for my wife and I. However, I am not whining about it. So get your facts straight before you get on your soapbox. And yes, that is what I'm saying.
Last edited by ChevyMgr; 09-10-2009 at 08:39 AM. Reason: fixed quote tags
09-10-2009, 12:59 AM
#28
Senior Member
Join Date: 05-06-2008
Location: Over here
Posts: 1,076
Do you buy toilet paper, denture cream, green beans, or gasoline? Did you know that many of the companies that grown, manufacture, distribute, and retail those products have employees? Did you know that some of those employees are (at least partially) provided health insurance by those companies? Did you know that companies (generally) operate on a cost basis, which means that they roll operational costs into their profitability structure? Did you know that means that you (we) are all paying for each others' healthcare via this mechanism? You do not live in a vacuum.
</fact straightening>
09-10-2009, 01:06 AM
#29
Member
Join Date: 07-26-2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 31
<fact straightening>
Do you buy toilet paper, denture cream, green beans, or gasoline? Did you know that many of the companies that grown, manufacture, distribute, and retail those products have employees? Did you know that some of those employees are (at least partially) provided health insurance by those companies? Did you know that companies (generally) operate on a cost basis, which means that they roll operational costs into their profitability structure? Did you know that means that you (we) are all paying for each others' healthcare via this mechanism? You do not live in a vacuum.
</fact straightening>
Do you buy toilet paper, denture cream, green beans, or gasoline? Did you know that many of the companies that grown, manufacture, distribute, and retail those products have employees? Did you know that some of those employees are (at least partially) provided health insurance by those companies? Did you know that companies (generally) operate on a cost basis, which means that they roll operational costs into their profitability structure? Did you know that means that you (we) are all paying for each others' healthcare via this mechanism? You do not live in a vacuum.
</fact straightening>
Do you know how to read? I did not say anything about toilet paper, I said I was retired and I pay my own insurance. I am not an employee who is afforded insurance by the company you buy toilet paper from. You are not paying for my insurance unless you are sending me a check and I have not seen one.
09-10-2009, 10:19 AM
#30
Senior Member
Join Date: 07-16-2006
Location: Centennial, Colorado
Posts: 566
Has anyone seen SICKO? Enough said. My wife got extremely ill while in France and was seen immediately and did not have to pay a dime. They even paid her cab fare to and from the hotel.
For those that think a universal healthcare system is socialism, think of what else is socialism:
1. Social Security
2. Medicare
3. Welfare
4. Public Education
5. Postal Service
All those republicans that are soooo afraid of this, have probably never been without healthcare or had to pay for it. I have and frankly, it sucks. I am currently paying for healthcare for a friend because he cannot afford it. If I made enough I would help out more people.
For those that think a universal healthcare system is socialism, think of what else is socialism:
1. Social Security
2. Medicare
3. Welfare
4. Public Education
5. Postal Service
All those republicans that are soooo afraid of this, have probably never been without healthcare or had to pay for it. I have and frankly, it sucks. I am currently paying for healthcare for a friend because he cannot afford it. If I made enough I would help out more people.