Crank Pulley Torque Question 2.2L VVT
06-26-2019, 11:27 AM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: 06-21-2019
Location: Newnan, Georgia USA
Posts: 6
Crank Pulley Torque Question 2.2L VVT
Our 2009 HHR (2.2L VVT of course) sags briefly about 4 seconds after starting and sets a P0017 pending code. Then it runs reasonably well with a slight "lope" as if VVT is disabled. Shut it off, start again and then it sets a P0017 active code; also shows a permanent P0017. I think I understand the logic of how/why this code is generated and have been going through a process of elimination trying to find the root cause. (It has 98K miles; serviced every 5K miles since new with Mobil 1 5W30 and new filter) With valve cover removed, no sludge deposits. Clean engine considering mileage.
Several things have been eliminated. The exhaust side cam position sensor is not the problem; also determined the actuator solenoid on the exhaust side is not the problem. No broken or damaged wiring. Removed the valve cover and determined there is no slack in the chain. (has the latest version of the chain tensioner) No evidence of problems with the guides. Compression on all 4 is between 200 and 205 cold and dry. Does not appear the magnetic unit on the camshaft has rotated. I am assuming the CPS is OK since (1) the only code generated is the P0017 and (2) the engine keeps running steadily without any miss or sag after the initial sag shortly after startup.
On some of the threads, I see knowledgeable people have made a checklist and about the only two things I have not done are (1) remove bottom cover and check all the timing indices and (2) verify the torque on the crankshaft bolt which retains the harmonic balancer.
I have a question about this last item. Since the CPS is on the other end, under the oil filter, what does the torque on that crankshaft bolt have to do with anything? Mine is not loose, and the sprockets are keyed to the shaft, so how does the torque on that bolt potentially affect the timing relationship between the crankshaft and the camshaft? There may be an obvious answer so I would appreciate an explanation, especially since virtually everything else has been verified.
Sam
Several things have been eliminated. The exhaust side cam position sensor is not the problem; also determined the actuator solenoid on the exhaust side is not the problem. No broken or damaged wiring. Removed the valve cover and determined there is no slack in the chain. (has the latest version of the chain tensioner) No evidence of problems with the guides. Compression on all 4 is between 200 and 205 cold and dry. Does not appear the magnetic unit on the camshaft has rotated. I am assuming the CPS is OK since (1) the only code generated is the P0017 and (2) the engine keeps running steadily without any miss or sag after the initial sag shortly after startup.
On some of the threads, I see knowledgeable people have made a checklist and about the only two things I have not done are (1) remove bottom cover and check all the timing indices and (2) verify the torque on the crankshaft bolt which retains the harmonic balancer.
I have a question about this last item. Since the CPS is on the other end, under the oil filter, what does the torque on that crankshaft bolt have to do with anything? Mine is not loose, and the sprockets are keyed to the shaft, so how does the torque on that bolt potentially affect the timing relationship between the crankshaft and the camshaft? There may be an obvious answer so I would appreciate an explanation, especially since virtually everything else has been verified.
Sam
06-26-2019, 12:24 PM
#2
Administrator
Join Date: 10-13-2011
Location: Welland,Ont Canada
Posts: 36,519
Welcome, the loose harmonic balancer bolt , can cause a vibration.
https://www.obd-codes.com/p0017
First on the cause list is a stretched timing chain . At your mileage, I recommend Cloyes products
https://www.chevyhhr.net/forums/how-...in-kits-60394/j
remove the front cover to inspect, and while it’s apart, change the chains, guides, there is a kit for VVT , it doesn’t include the cam sprockets
https://www.obd-codes.com/p0017
First on the cause list is a stretched timing chain . At your mileage, I recommend Cloyes products
https://www.chevyhhr.net/forums/how-...in-kits-60394/j
remove the front cover to inspect, and while it’s apart, change the chains, guides, there is a kit for VVT , it doesn’t include the cam sprockets
06-26-2019, 12:32 PM
#3
Technical Moderator
Join Date: 01-23-2009
Location: Fredericksburg, Virginia
Posts: 24,698
P0017 means that the crankshaft is not at the position the camshaft thinks it should be. The only way that can happen is a bad timing chain. Replace it ASAP or major damage can ensue.
06-26-2019, 02:34 PM
#4
Administrator
Join Date: 10-13-2011
Location: Welland,Ont Canada
Posts: 36,519
And oh , just a side note, order a top bolt for the front guide
I ordered from Mike, his kit included two ARP bolts , one for the front guide lower bolt and one for the tensioner guide lower bolt.
I ordered from Mike, his kit included two ARP bolts , one for the front guide lower bolt and one for the tensioner guide lower bolt.
06-26-2019, 03:07 PM
#5
Thread Starter
Join Date: 06-21-2019
Location: Newnan, Georgia USA
Posts: 6
Thanks guys, Just came in from the heat to cool off and saw both of your posts. Will order the Cloyes' kit with new sprocket, guides, etc. along with a new crank pulley/harmonic balancer bolt. From scanning the threads the phasers don't seem to cause many problems so will leave them alone. The top guide bolt replacement part shown in the video looks like a good solution. Original bolt appears to have a high failure rate. My better half loves the HHR; perfect for hauling groceries and grandkids. We will have it running like it should in a few days. I appreciate your good counsel and advice.
Sam
Sam
06-26-2019, 04:12 PM
#6
Administrator
Join Date: 10-13-2011
Location: Welland,Ont Canada
Posts: 36,519
Heck if you lived closer I’d invite you over to change it here , it’s not much cooler out there , but I’ve changed a few chain sets.
9-4201SX and 9-4202S
some installation info
Installation Tips | Cloyes Gear & Products, Inc.
9-4201SX and 9-4202S
some installation info
Installation Tips | Cloyes Gear & Products, Inc.
06-28-2019, 03:40 PM
#7
Thread Starter
Join Date: 06-21-2019
Location: Newnan, Georgia USA
Posts: 6
Is Harmonic Balancer supposed to be this tight?
Time to order parts. After reviewing several threads and links on this site, looks like the current part number for the GM Crankshaft pulley (Harmonic Balancer) bolt is 11589123, and the replacement bolts for the sprockets (2009 2.2L VVT version) are 11588844.
Regarding the Harmonic Balancer, it was really on tight. It was replaced by dealer when the car was new. Engine developed a front oil seal leak and vibration. GM had a recall/bulletin on the balancer so dealer replaced it. Looks like they had a hard time getting it on...and getting it aligned with the key. I used a 3 bolt puller to remove it and it was tight all the way coming off. In some of the videos I see people using the balancer to rotate the crankshaft and it slides on and off easily. Has anyone had the same experience with a tight one? The only numbers I see on the balancer are 7704 595038 and 253 100913.
Thank you for confirming the kit numbers for the chain sets. I will also replace the oil seal and timing chain drive sprocket along with the single use bolts and chain sets and gasket. Any insight on the balancer issue I encountered would be appreciated. I don't see any damage to the balancer or the crankshaft, just noticed the outside end of the key in the crankshaft slot is slightly mangled like the balancer wasn't lined up perfectly on the first try...with a complementary mark on the inside end of the balancer next to the key slot... It fits so tight I don't look forward to re-installing it. I hope someone tells me they used the wrong balancer and knows which one to order. I would even order a Dorman if it went on and off like it should.
Sam
Regarding the Harmonic Balancer, it was really on tight. It was replaced by dealer when the car was new. Engine developed a front oil seal leak and vibration. GM had a recall/bulletin on the balancer so dealer replaced it. Looks like they had a hard time getting it on...and getting it aligned with the key. I used a 3 bolt puller to remove it and it was tight all the way coming off. In some of the videos I see people using the balancer to rotate the crankshaft and it slides on and off easily. Has anyone had the same experience with a tight one? The only numbers I see on the balancer are 7704 595038 and 253 100913.
Thank you for confirming the kit numbers for the chain sets. I will also replace the oil seal and timing chain drive sprocket along with the single use bolts and chain sets and gasket. Any insight on the balancer issue I encountered would be appreciated. I don't see any damage to the balancer or the crankshaft, just noticed the outside end of the key in the crankshaft slot is slightly mangled like the balancer wasn't lined up perfectly on the first try...with a complementary mark on the inside end of the balancer next to the key slot... It fits so tight I don't look forward to re-installing it. I hope someone tells me they used the wrong balancer and knows which one to order. I would even order a Dorman if it went on and off like it should.
Sam
07-12-2019, 02:22 PM
#8
Thread Starter
Join Date: 06-21-2019
Location: Newnan, Georgia USA
Posts: 6
Repairs Completed
Note to Moderator: After reading all the related threads on the forum related to this repair, it seemed a good idea to post a couple of tips I didn't see posted or clarified elsewhere. Please feel free to edit this or move it to another forum as you consider appropriate. Sam
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Our HHR is running smooth as silk now. No DTC's or any other problems. All good. Many thanks to DonBrew in NC and Old Blue in lovely Toronto for their valuable input, as well as the many posts regarding timing chain related issues with the HHR.
In summary, I detected a brief rattle from the "chain" side of the 2.2 VVT on startup, then eventually a P0017 code was set. On teardown, found the upper timing chain guide screw was stripped/backed out and bent; guide was damaged, but timing chain still seemed reasonably tight. Another problem noted was excessive slack in the balance chain. Repair included new Cloyes' kit for the Timing Chain (9-4201SX) plus a new Drive Sprocket (S-849), Balance Kit (9-4202S) plus the new plug/screw replacement part for the upper timing chain guide screw application, new front oil seal, new camshaft phaser/sprocket bolts, and new harmonic balancer bolt. Also replaced both of the actuator solenoids. Latest part numbers for those from GM/AC Delco are 12679099 and 12679100.
I would like to offer a couple of tips for anyone considering this as a DIY project, assuming you have some experience doing similar work on a late model engine:
1. The Cloyes' videos are a big help - but - they make it look too easy in one area. If you don't make provisions to secure the camshafts, when you remove the timing chain, with the exhaust side sprocket at 10:00 and intake side at 2:00, both camshafts will immediately rotate CW approximately 90 degrees due to valve spring pressure on the cam lobes until all the valves are either closed or nearly closed. The crankshaft will also rotate some unless it is also secured. This may not cause any damage, but it will make it more difficult to achieve the correct timing relationships between the crank and cams. Advice is, unless you have the GM tool to secure the camshafts, best to use a couple of wrenches and another pair of hands to make sure the camshafts stay near the 10:00 and 2:00 position when you remove the phaser/sprocket assembly, and stay in that position until you are ready for reassembly. Likewise, good idea to make sure the crakshaft remains with the key in the 12:00 position as well.
2. It is not unusual for the harmonic balancer to require a 3 bolt puller to remove it, especially if it is like my car with 10 years and 100K miles of service. Don't panic. This is normal. A layer of oxidation and crud forms on the surface that mates with the crankshaft. The Harmonic Balancer needs to be able to slide back on the crankshaft so you can guide it through the seal, align it with the oil pump drive, then rotate it as necessary to align the slot with the crankshaft key. Finally it should slide all the way home without any hammering, etc. I wrapped a long 3/4" socket with 2 layers of 400 grit wet or dry paper, applied a little 30W oil. With the socket supported by a long extension which was clamped to a workbench, I rotated the crankshaft end of the balancer like a wheel on an axle on that socket until the inside was shiny and clean. I probably worked with it about 5 minutes. The outer end of the cavity in the harmonic balancer has a slightly larger diameter, so that is not the end that gets tight, just the surface on the "inside" end that fits on the crankshaft. After making sure all the sanding residue was cleaned out, I applied a little clean oil to the surface in the balancer and it slipped on perfectly just like the one you see in the Cloyes' video.
Hope this helps. The key on the crankshaft on my car was slightly deformed. In the first year I had the car, the dealer replaced the balancer as part of a TSB when the original part failed. It was obvious that someone in the dealer's shop did the rough install because there was a key mark on the inside face of the balancer they installed. Had to deal with the deformed key to remove the timing chain drive sprocket, then had to use a gear puller to encourage the balance chain drive sprocket to come off. It didn't need a lot of pressure, just patience and the right tools.
Sam
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Our HHR is running smooth as silk now. No DTC's or any other problems. All good. Many thanks to DonBrew in NC and Old Blue in lovely Toronto for their valuable input, as well as the many posts regarding timing chain related issues with the HHR.
In summary, I detected a brief rattle from the "chain" side of the 2.2 VVT on startup, then eventually a P0017 code was set. On teardown, found the upper timing chain guide screw was stripped/backed out and bent; guide was damaged, but timing chain still seemed reasonably tight. Another problem noted was excessive slack in the balance chain. Repair included new Cloyes' kit for the Timing Chain (9-4201SX) plus a new Drive Sprocket (S-849), Balance Kit (9-4202S) plus the new plug/screw replacement part for the upper timing chain guide screw application, new front oil seal, new camshaft phaser/sprocket bolts, and new harmonic balancer bolt. Also replaced both of the actuator solenoids. Latest part numbers for those from GM/AC Delco are 12679099 and 12679100.
I would like to offer a couple of tips for anyone considering this as a DIY project, assuming you have some experience doing similar work on a late model engine:
1. The Cloyes' videos are a big help - but - they make it look too easy in one area. If you don't make provisions to secure the camshafts, when you remove the timing chain, with the exhaust side sprocket at 10:00 and intake side at 2:00, both camshafts will immediately rotate CW approximately 90 degrees due to valve spring pressure on the cam lobes until all the valves are either closed or nearly closed. The crankshaft will also rotate some unless it is also secured. This may not cause any damage, but it will make it more difficult to achieve the correct timing relationships between the crank and cams. Advice is, unless you have the GM tool to secure the camshafts, best to use a couple of wrenches and another pair of hands to make sure the camshafts stay near the 10:00 and 2:00 position when you remove the phaser/sprocket assembly, and stay in that position until you are ready for reassembly. Likewise, good idea to make sure the crakshaft remains with the key in the 12:00 position as well.
2. It is not unusual for the harmonic balancer to require a 3 bolt puller to remove it, especially if it is like my car with 10 years and 100K miles of service. Don't panic. This is normal. A layer of oxidation and crud forms on the surface that mates with the crankshaft. The Harmonic Balancer needs to be able to slide back on the crankshaft so you can guide it through the seal, align it with the oil pump drive, then rotate it as necessary to align the slot with the crankshaft key. Finally it should slide all the way home without any hammering, etc. I wrapped a long 3/4" socket with 2 layers of 400 grit wet or dry paper, applied a little 30W oil. With the socket supported by a long extension which was clamped to a workbench, I rotated the crankshaft end of the balancer like a wheel on an axle on that socket until the inside was shiny and clean. I probably worked with it about 5 minutes. The outer end of the cavity in the harmonic balancer has a slightly larger diameter, so that is not the end that gets tight, just the surface on the "inside" end that fits on the crankshaft. After making sure all the sanding residue was cleaned out, I applied a little clean oil to the surface in the balancer and it slipped on perfectly just like the one you see in the Cloyes' video.
Hope this helps. The key on the crankshaft on my car was slightly deformed. In the first year I had the car, the dealer replaced the balancer as part of a TSB when the original part failed. It was obvious that someone in the dealer's shop did the rough install because there was a key mark on the inside face of the balancer they installed. Had to deal with the deformed key to remove the timing chain drive sprocket, then had to use a gear puller to encourage the balance chain drive sprocket to come off. It didn't need a lot of pressure, just patience and the right tools.
Sam
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