coderkevin

Hello,

So, my HHR failed to start a few days ago. I pulled it back home, checked fuel, spark, and compression. No compression, so I took the valve cover off, and it became obvious. The upper timing guide is bent upwards and has a groove worn in it, and as I was feeling around, I had 3 rocker arms come apart in my hand, broken in half.

It's obvious at a minimum, I will need to pull the head, send it in to have it serviced (I know my limits), and then replace the timing chain and guides. I feel capable of doing this, as I've done it with a '95 Neon once (although it was a belt, not a chain). However, here are my questions:

1. Is it worth doing this, or should I consider something more drastic, like replacing the entire engine? The HHR has over 150k miles on it, but I've had no other real problems with the drivetrain to date.

2. Will getting the head serviced and getting a timing chain kit likely get her up and running again? Or are there any other likely issues involved?

3. Is there anything else I should do while I'm at it? Like, replace the balancer chain, water pump, fuel injectors, etc?

843de

to the forum, although I wish the circumstances were better.

Judging by the damage you've described, I'd be very dubious about the health of the bottom end. Rod and crank bearings, balance shaft bearings, etc.

If it were mine, I'd track down a good used engine with decent miles on it, then swap out your damaged engine/boat anchor.

The important thing on HHR engine swaps is to remember the Golden Rule, "Like for Like", match up the model year and displacement and your life will be much happier.

coderkevin

Thanks for the advice, and the welcome.

I was wondering about the bottom end as well, what with all the miles, too. I wasn't sure if this timing chain issue was a common occurrence and cleans up enough to not worry about oil ports and such. I guess that's not the case with these engines, though.

Should I replace just the engine or both the engine and transmission as a unit? Again, I'm thinking of the 150k+ miles on this thing, maybe it would be best to replace the transmission too, while I'm at it?

Is there any best place to look for rebuilt engines? Any tips or things to look for? Also, what should I do to the engine before installing it? Should I replace the timing chain assembly, water pump, etc? Just to be sure?

And finally, just how much work am I getting into? Is engine replacement on these particularly onerous and messy? Or is it fairly neat and orderly?

843de

Well, the engine only, or engine and transmission together question is a tough one. I'm assuming you have an automatic, and while 150k is peanuts to a properly serviced 4T-45E tranny, that means it should have had a fluid at filter change at 100k.

Catastrophic timing chain failures are rare, but they can be an indication of an engine that's gone way too long between oil changes. Did you pick up your HHR used?

A good place to start a search for a replacement engine is your yellow pages, or a trusted mechanic. Then you have outfits like Jasper Engines who offer fully rebuilt and guaranteed units that are gone through from oil pan to valve cover, including replacement of water pumps, etc.

Whether to do a "timng chain kit" and ancillary components on a used engine is mileage dependent, if you find a unit with 50,000-70,000 miles on it or less, you'd most likely be safe installing it "as is".

Timing chain work on Ecotec engines is fiddly and time consuming, and Heaven help you if you get things just one tooth off, let's just say "things will get ugly fast".

As far as doing your own work, well a lot depends on your experience level and working environment. The easiest way to do it is to drop the complete drivetrain and subframe, a task that isn't for the faint of heart, or the workspace challenged.

So while you're calling around, or e-mailing around, for a replacement engine or engine/trans combo. Check on prices for having the swap done. A well equipped shop can do the work in a fraction of the time it may take you, and the labor costs will be balanced out by getting your HHR back on the road faster.

hurst2001

Just a question , if you go by changing your oil by the dic gives me concern when it comes to these engines.. I get between 30 to 40 percent it's time to change.. I feel gm should be respondable for damage which is not the correct time to change.. But that's my opion

Oldblue

Welcome to the site! I like your thinking about swapping out engine and trans, throwing new parts at it may get you back on the road, but you will have to ask yourself, Do I feel lucky!
I have a 2.2 with 175,000 miles no issues and my wife's car has an Ecotec 2.2 l with 200,000 miles no issues but if either go south, then it's going to be complete refresh with new engine and transmission , GM and ZZP have surprising prices on new and rebuilt.
I figure drop the combo once to freshen up the drive train

db/sb

But GM does feel it's the 'correct time to change' if you follow the DIC. I guess that will always be a debate. I always went by the DIC on oil changes. When it was down to 'change oil soon' the mileage wasn't any higher than other vehicles or manufacturers recommendations, generally in the high 5K to mid 6K range. I used synthetic. For comparison, our Kia has a recommendation of 7500 miles between oil changes and our Mercedes.....10000! You can be 'old school' and change it every 3000 miles if you want. Your call. I always thought those recommendations were created by the oil manufacturers anyway. I'll go with what the company that built it says.....

Oldblue

I choose to not respond to the oil change DIC and GM's evil plan to control when to change your oil, as well , it's not GM that looks under my hood every Saturday morning to check my oil level I use synthetic oil and have no problem going to 6,000 miles between oil changes!

db/sb

Well it's not only GM though they are the only one I've seen do it in percentage. Actually I think my daughters Honda Accord uses that method also but our Kia gives a warning at 7500 miles from the last reset and the Mercedes does the same thing at 10K past the last reset.

donbrew

Go ahead and destroy the ecosphere. Open up a few cans of Freon while you're at it. You only live on the planet for a little while.