Brake pedal has too much free travel or way too soft.
09-12-2015, 01:14 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: 09-12-2015
Location: NJ
Posts: 5
Brake pedal has too much free travel or way too soft.
I have a 2009 HHR SS with the Brembo brakes and a 5 speed trans. My car has about 75K and is having some major issues with the brakes.
About a week ago, I tried to pull out of my driveway and noticed the brake pedal almost hit the floor. At that point, I brought the car to a mechanic and he advised me the brake fluid was very low and one of the rear wheels had a brake cylinder that was leaking. As a result, he replaced both rear brake cylinders and bled the whole system. When he finished, he sounded a bit puzzled about why the brake pedal was still soft. I drove the car, and noticed the same thing but it seemed to stop well enough. The one problem at this point was that you had to depress the brakes a significant amount more than normal or what I was used to. Also, I have read of a similar issue, but I don't remember if it was on this forum or some place else, but the owner claimed the dealer replaced the master cylinder and it still didn't help. In addition, I wanted to note that after the mechanic worked on the car the brakes were vastly improved but still seemed like they were still too soft.
I have browsed some postings, and have read that the master cylinder can leak internally? I am not sure what to think at this point, and neither did my mechanic. Has anybody had a similar problem with soft brakes? Any help would be appreciated.
I really love the car and its performance, but this problem has me really upset and I don't know what to think! Let me know if you need any other details. Thanks!
About a week ago, I tried to pull out of my driveway and noticed the brake pedal almost hit the floor. At that point, I brought the car to a mechanic and he advised me the brake fluid was very low and one of the rear wheels had a brake cylinder that was leaking. As a result, he replaced both rear brake cylinders and bled the whole system. When he finished, he sounded a bit puzzled about why the brake pedal was still soft. I drove the car, and noticed the same thing but it seemed to stop well enough. The one problem at this point was that you had to depress the brakes a significant amount more than normal or what I was used to. Also, I have read of a similar issue, but I don't remember if it was on this forum or some place else, but the owner claimed the dealer replaced the master cylinder and it still didn't help. In addition, I wanted to note that after the mechanic worked on the car the brakes were vastly improved but still seemed like they were still too soft.
I have browsed some postings, and have read that the master cylinder can leak internally? I am not sure what to think at this point, and neither did my mechanic. Has anybody had a similar problem with soft brakes? Any help would be appreciated.
I really love the car and its performance, but this problem has me really upset and I don't know what to think! Let me know if you need any other details. Thanks!
Last edited by SilverGhst; 09-12-2015 at 01:22 PM. Reason: Add extra sentence and spelling. More detail
09-12-2015, 01:31 PM
#2
Administrator
Join Date: 10-13-2011
Location: Welland,Ont Canada
Posts: 36,458
Welcome to the site, yes the master cylinder can leak into the brake booster, also the rear caliper pistons need the be adjusted to allow approximately 1/8 inch travel of the e brake arm the cable pulls on.
I've also seen the brake hoses go mushy and need replaced periodically, however 6 years is a little soon to me.
I'd check the master cylinder for leaks
I've also seen the brake hoses go mushy and need replaced periodically, however 6 years is a little soon to me.
I'd check the master cylinder for leaks
09-12-2015, 01:42 PM
#3
Thread Starter
Join Date: 09-12-2015
Location: NJ
Posts: 5
Re: Brake Pedal has too much free travel or way to soft.
Thanks for the quick reply. I am planning on having the master cylinder replaced. Hopefully it will put this issue to bed. But if anyone else has any other ideas please let me know. I need the car for work but don't want to take a chance of an accident.
09-12-2015, 02:36 PM
#5
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Join Date: 06-30-2010
Location: Kannapolis NC
Posts: 25,739
Yup Don, 4-Wheel Discs on Super Sports, it may be an issue of semantics between the tech and our new member.
SilverGhst could have had a blown rear caliper seal, and there was the issue on some SS's with the vacuum booster they need because Turbocharged engines have awfully low manifold vacuum at times.
But rather than condemning the Master Cylinder just yet, a visit to a brake shop for a second opinion and rebleeding the brakes might just do the trick.
SilverGhst could have had a blown rear caliper seal, and there was the issue on some SS's with the vacuum booster they need because Turbocharged engines have awfully low manifold vacuum at times.
But rather than condemning the Master Cylinder just yet, a visit to a brake shop for a second opinion and rebleeding the brakes might just do the trick.
09-12-2015, 03:15 PM
#6
Administrator
Join Date: 10-13-2011
Location: Welland,Ont Canada
Posts: 36,458
The SS models do have four wheel disc brakes, the rear calipers have a ratchet mechanism to apply and adjust the E-brake when you install new pads you have the use a tool to screw in the caliper piston ratchet the adjust the pads so there is approximately 1/8 travel of the arm the e-brake cable connects to, then you adjust the cable pull nut under the consul so the e-brake lever travels three or four clicks
I did a little digging and found this thread about a vacuum booster
https://www.chevyhhr.net/forums/hhr-...ntalled-44863/
I did a little digging and found this thread about a vacuum booster
https://www.chevyhhr.net/forums/hhr-...ntalled-44863/
Last edited by Oldblue; 09-12-2015 at 04:09 PM. Reason: Found more info
09-12-2015, 04:09 PM
#7
Technical Moderator
Join Date: 01-23-2009
Location: Fredericksburg, Virginia
Posts: 24,670
So; my first thought was probably right, "parking brake adjustment".
I hope it is a matter of semantics, not idiot mechanics.
But nobody rebuilds calipers anymore, it's cheaper to buy a reman unit.
I hope it is a matter of semantics, not idiot mechanics.
But nobody rebuilds calipers anymore, it's cheaper to buy a reman unit.
09-12-2015, 04:18 PM
#8
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Join Date: 06-30-2010
Location: Kannapolis NC
Posts: 25,739
I still rebuild calipers Don, but then again I'm a bit eccentric ya know.
Great find on the Vacuum Pump Kit thread Oldblue, it was hiding from me, and a good call on the Parking Brake/E-Brake angle too.
Great find on the Vacuum Pump Kit thread Oldblue, it was hiding from me, and a good call on the Parking Brake/E-Brake angle too.
09-12-2015, 06:48 PM
#10
Thread Starter
Join Date: 09-12-2015
Location: NJ
Posts: 5
Brake pedal has too much free travel or way too soft.
I have the bill in front of me from the mechanic, and it says calibers. My bad! Anyway, I think the vacuum booster is another possibility. Having time to think and get my thoughts in order, I have some specific questions:
1.) Can the master cylinder be tested without going through a whole bunch of labor?
2.) I have read that the master cylinder can leak internally can anyone confirm that?
3.) Is replacing the vacuum booster a major job - more than a few hours worth of work?
4.) Are there any other vehicles with a similar set up for the brakes besides the HHR, Solstice, and the Cobalt?
In addition, I drove the car and carefully observed how much the brake pedal had to be depressed. I estimate about 3 or 4 inches from where it normally rests. Unlike clutch pedal free travel, I don't know of a way I can accurately measure it because I have to drive the car and apply the brakes to test it.
One last point that comes to mind. I don't know if this means anything, but its seems that while the car is running and warmed up for a few minutes, I can pump the brakes and they seem to firm up but after few seconds they go back to being soft.
Thanks in advance for your help and I will report back once the car goes back into the shop on Monday or Tuesday. Finally, as I see it there are very few of these SS models out there so I am guessing at times they can be a bit of a mystery for the average shop.
1.) Can the master cylinder be tested without going through a whole bunch of labor?
2.) I have read that the master cylinder can leak internally can anyone confirm that?
3.) Is replacing the vacuum booster a major job - more than a few hours worth of work?
4.) Are there any other vehicles with a similar set up for the brakes besides the HHR, Solstice, and the Cobalt?
In addition, I drove the car and carefully observed how much the brake pedal had to be depressed. I estimate about 3 or 4 inches from where it normally rests. Unlike clutch pedal free travel, I don't know of a way I can accurately measure it because I have to drive the car and apply the brakes to test it.
One last point that comes to mind. I don't know if this means anything, but its seems that while the car is running and warmed up for a few minutes, I can pump the brakes and they seem to firm up but after few seconds they go back to being soft.
Thanks in advance for your help and I will report back once the car goes back into the shop on Monday or Tuesday. Finally, as I see it there are very few of these SS models out there so I am guessing at times they can be a bit of a mystery for the average shop.