SCOOT

(Edited my previous post to avoid confusion)
Thanks for the clarification CH ! I was basing everything off of what I remember (which isn't much anymore these days )
Just trying to state some "known" variables for other's reading this thread....

Say... if Mikes got the 2.4 - doesn't (stock) HP seem waaaaayyyy low as opposed to manuf *claimed* hp? I know the manuf want's to 'market' MAX power, but they claim what (?) ... like 172hp!?!?! Guess I don't know if manuf claims are 'at the wheels' or 'at the crank' (prolly the latter.. and figuring 15% loss for drivetrain drag- those figures are close). The bottom line is the dyno results posted are of the 'shootout' variety (MAX power averaged over multiple pulls). Seems pretty 'apples-to-apples' to me.

SCOOT

STG- Not sure what "I" does vs. "D". I have the MTX in my HHR and have never experienced 'I' or 'D' (via an ATX) first hand. Just posing the question for all ATX-owners. I'm assuming by the posted #'s that this was a 'shootout' style test (only MAX power #'s listed). How 'I' or 'D' affects the overall MAX performance of the engine may be moot.
IMO- these figures only tell 1/2 of the story. When I look at dyno charts, not only do I look at TOTAL increase the part/combo provides... I also consider torque (and the rev ranges) where power is gained over baseline. Since I haven't seen the charts... one can only wonder.
According to the posted figures, CGS wins the 'biggest HP increase' category hands down. Now... if it only makes that type of power around, say, 6000rpm- it's useless to me (I typically don't drive that hard very often). Then again- if it generates a bump in power, say around, 4K... THAT'S GREAT!! Just too little info (for me) to tell... .. .
We'll see what else Mike can come up with.
Who knew Mikes 'BUTT DYNO' was soo accurate!?!!?

SoCalHHR

Yes CH, and any dyno man worth his salt will tell you there's NO air at the fenderwell hole while the car is running on a dyno. Figure it out will you? Cars overheat and blow head gaskets on dyno's with the hood down. Since my car has now been dyno'd 5 times, I really didn't want to take that chance on it. If anything - this test allowed the Airaid to get MORe fresh air while the CGS system STILL did not receive any "cool air" - when are you going to quit acting like the expert and put up? Let's see the mods on your HHR?

Once again I DID NOT dyno the car. West Coast Vipers did and they do it all week long. Like every shop they have their system and Ilet them do it their way.

I knew this would start a flame war. I've done my part to "better the HHR community" - and now I'm done. If you want to see the actual charts go buy your own intakes and pay to have them dyno'd yourself - then you'll see what idiots you are acting like.

I've searched around on the net and found one site that claims the Airaid makes 8hp/8ftlbs and another that claims only 5hp. I doubt seriously there is an official "Airaid dyno chart: anywhere - and if there is, I guarantee you it was "skewed" to look good. That's what manufacturers do.

AEM sent me an email last week telling me they "dropped" the HHR intake project - wonder why? K&N has been working on the HHR for nearly 6 months with still no product released - wonder why?

The bottom line is CGS has already had experience with Ecotec angines as they do work directly for GM on special projects - and they knew what the engine wanted to "see."

Also, for the record - Henry was 100% wrong about the "lean conditions" of the HHR with an intake. The Air/Fuel charts show that the HHR's computer learns "immediately" what's going on and richens the mixture up plenty - even at WOT. The dyno guy told me that if we could find a way to lean it out we would make even more power.

So now I'm done arguing with people who have no experience modifying HHR engines. What works on another vehicle just doesn't translate to the HHR's Ecotec engine. We have proved that previously with exhaust setups and now again with the intake shootout. Those who buy the CGS will feel the benefits of more power.

(*BTW: to answer the "exhaust" question earlier; this test was done with the IMCO muffler so the figures of all three tests are probably a bit higher than stock figures - but they are still relative to each other.)

I'm going back to running my business now - and probably won't be showing up here much in the future. It's just not worth the treatment you get for trying to help out...

captain howdy

I wasn't trying to say they were dynoing the HHR wrong, I'm saying you tested the AiRaid system wrong. The AirRaid is meant to work as a closed unit. If you were going to run the dyno with the hood open you should have put on some form of cover to simulate it being pressed against the hood and conected the hose to where it should be. Even if people don't agree with you don't call us idiots. Just because you run a business doesn't make you the Mr. know everything about cars and if people disagree they are idiots. Come on Mike grow up a little! I've seen you argue geometry with an ex GM engineer because you worked at a magazine not that you've ever been involved in the design of a car or anything. On the other site you call nitrous oxide a true CAI system, that is about the most incorrect thing I have ever heard! Not to mention that according to you plastic is a better heat conducter than metal. You're as much of an expert on cars as anyone else on this site. You know more than some but less than others, just like myself.

hvrod

I think he needs to step off of his pedestal and come down to earth where everyone else is....

SoCalHHR

Twisting my words again to make them say what you want. I was simply explaining that NO2 is a COLDER charge than the coldest ambient air. If you knew a little about physics and liquified gas expanding you might understand. I've sold and installed plenty of NO2 systems - besides writing articles on the subject. BTW - YOU mad e a very incorrect statement in that same post:

"which creates more expansion of the working fluid (mostly nitrogen) in the cylinder..."

NO2 is 1 part Nitrogen and 2 parts Oxygen (hence the O2). Nitrogen is an inert gas - it doesn't burn.

But let's get back to the topic at hand CH - you haven't done any mods to your HHR's engine, yet you claim to be an expert? Most dyno facilities dyno with the hood up. That is the only way to properly cool the engine. I saw the temps on the HHR with the hood up - it would not have been pretty with it down. the Airaid would have them drawn only hot air and I would have hear more complaints (Waaaah! it wasnt' getting any air! Waaah!) Either way I lose.

Why don't you go next - buy an Airaid and have your's dyno'd hood down - then post the results, it's that simple...

captain howdy

I never claimed to be an expert? That's my point, I'm not a self proclaimed expert like some. I have a general knowledge of cars because I have worked on enough of my own and others over the years, I have friends that work on cars, family that work on cars, I grew up around a motorcycle club, I had an uncle that was an NHRA/IHRA TA/FC driver, and my former step-dad was a mechanic. I have spent my whole life around cars and motorcycles but there is still plenty to learn so I am far from an expert. I'm not going to argue with an expert nor claim to be one either.

booksmitty

I like the looks of Mike's "tube thingie" better than the "box thingie."
And baby, it's about looks!

MikeX

In the immortal words of Rodney King "Can we all get along?"

Mike, I'm kinda coming at it like C.H. I have worked on cars and mechanical things all my life. I put camshafts and played with my hot rods in high school ('76 era) so I am not too dumb about cars. But I am not an expert either. I don't ask questions to provoke people, I simply have an inquisitive mind (very) so when I see something curious, I ask a question, that's all.

My God, if we can't even ask questions anymore, we stop learning. So we just wanted to understand, if the hood has to be open for cooling, that's fine, but why is the one system not made to function as it would in the field, with a temporary cover in place so the air is sucked in the same way it was designed. That is a perfectly reasonable question. So the possible answers are:

A. I don't know

B. Sure I'll explain it, its because _______________

unfortunately we got

C. Please don't ask questions about things you are not experts in.

Can you understand a person's frustration getting answer C. ?

ng8650