Drum brakes work just as well in 99% of all situations as discs. I work with some very good brake engineers and they say if you can lock the brakes with drums you have more than enough brake. Discs add more money to the vehicle. Besides the HHR is not a very heavy car, the only A platform cars that have rear discs are the SS models where they might get more severe use.

 

I do agree with your statement. However, I would put your 99% closer to 90%. Some vehicles came with brakes that were severely underwhelming. Perfect example is the Fox body Mustang - 79-93 model years - except for the 93 Cobra and 85-86 SVO's.

All the other ones couldn't stop to save your life.

 

Vega's were hairy beasts if you tried to haul them down from speed, really under braked.

Four wheel drums were not evil things like they are made out to be, my '67 SS 427 has four wheel drum brakes, and as long as you don't overdrive them....they work just fine at hauling that big 'ol honker down straight and true with little drama.

 

I agree with 843-

I've had several Caddys, but 1958 & 1959 both had drums all around & enough power. If the brakes are maintained, they stop fine..

Granted, they are not as powerful as the newest vette discs. But they worked well.. And those Caddys were no light weights.

 

No they are almost aircraft carriers, my '67 is a big car, but a '59 Cadillac is a BIG car.

 

Yep, & IIRC 1959 was the longest Caddy ever made..

Mine were CD Villes.. the '59 was on factory air bags. Rode like floating on a cloud..

Also had a slow leak, let it sit a couple days & it was laying Frame....

Had to let it run for 15-20 minutes or so, to air back up enough to drive it..

 

Oh yeah, the ill fated air suspension on the '58 and '59 GM cars, they did do the "Automatic Low Rider" thing years before it became the "in" thing to do.

That's right youngsters, Grandpa drove a "slammed" Chevy long before you came around, its just that he didn't appreciate the frame rails dragging on the pavement.

 

Well. excuse me. Some readers of the thread may not be "experts". If someone asks for advice I don't assume that they are an expert. And many who read this thread don't think that they are experts.

General rule is do not use air tools for attaching things, only for detaching. If JoeHomeowner uses his air tank (instead of a torque wrench) to bolt things back up, he may have a problem. I have absolutely no idea how anybody (including experts) can guarantee that their air tools are adjusted to any standard at all. Those "torque rods" are never correct, and the settings on a tool are NOT real.

When I adjust my rear drum brakes I rarely need more than 2 clicks. When I install new rear shoes, I can get pretty close first time. An old system will have a ridge on the drum, making it quite difficult to do the R&R method of brake adjustment.

Sorry that I had to explain myself. Try to dial the sensitivity down a bit. Do your mechanicking anyway you want, just don't assume that everybody has the same level of experience as yourself. I DO NOT care if you use air tools or the conveniently located slots for the purpose. The slot is there for a reason.

Air tools are GREAT, for removing bolt & nuts, and getting bolts & nuts down long distances. NOT for getting anywhere near a torque spec., better to use the RedNeck meter (that I use), 3/8 drive handle real hard pull is about 50 lb/ft etc.

One of the huge problems with "FLAT RATE" mechanics is that they trust the air too much and do not care if somebody has a problem down the line (I was going to say dies, toned it down). Not to mention they just don't care for anything other than getting paid on Friday. Today in the DC area a major highway was closed because somebodies "wheel fell off". Do you think the "flat rat" guy will ever know or care?

Like I said earlier in the thread "never mind".

 

Also, drum brakes make a superior parking brakes. Disc brakes, especially those that that lock the main caliper piston to the rotor instead of using a small drum inside the rotor hat can cause problems if set when the brakes are hot. Drum brakes are a strong, cheap brake system that on a small FWD car work well.

 

Sorry that you got all sensitive to my explanation. Maybe you should take your own advise regarding being an expert or not. Don't assume that everyone ISN'T an expert. I just stated what I use personally. And nothing about what someone else should or shouldn't do.


As far as the torque sticks not being accurate, have you ever used one? Have you ever seen one be tested? Being in the business, anything related to torque specs must be tested frequently. All my torque equipment was used almost daily and must be sent back to the manufacturer to have the calibration checked. If it failed, it was replaced. If it passed, I had it back to use again.

Also, don't think that your "Redneck Torque spec" is accurate either.


Good for you


I never got sensitive until someone (you) criticized my work ethics. So take your own advice. I don't criticize. What ever you do is fine by me. But I have seen too many people think that they ARE experts, when they can barely change a set of wiper blades, let alone perform a brake job.

If someone has ZERO clue or any hesitation in doing a repair, they need to see someone who has experience. I don't mess with diesel engines, because I was never trained in diesel engine repair. I let someone experienced in that type of work do that kind of repair. I don't diagnose any type of illness or bodily issues I have. I go see a Doctor.


Flat rate techs do trust air, but most importantly is that they trust their EXPERIENCE. And yes, as a Flat Rate Tech, we do hear about problems when they occur. And yes, as a Flat Rate Tech, we do care. Ultimately it's our asses on the line when something fails. Also before even a car is given back to a customer, it must be driven. I have personally seen experienced technicians (20 plus years of experience) have wheels fall off during test drives after work was performed. Oil forgotten to be filled during an oil change. **** happens. We just have to make sure that if it happens, that it doesn't happen when the customer has the vehicle.

Mechanics are expected by their employers to be ABSOLUTELY PERFECT ALL THE TIME. But we are human. Perfection all the time will never happen. You can take the best mechanic in the world, and I will guarantee you that they had something go absolutely catastrophically wrong at some point in time.

And as far as a wheel falling off, it could be a professional mechanic, or it could be a careless DIYer trying to cut corners in their driveway. By trying to tighten a lugnut with a 3/8" drive handle with a really good pull . Don't assume anything. You might find yourself in the same situation.

And just taking a page out of your book, can you absolutely guarantee that your "strong pull" on a 3/8 inch drive handle is really 50 lb. ft. of torque? I don't think so. Next time you give a bolt a really good pull, put a torque wrench on it and tell us what the spec really is.

Last but not least, if you don't care if someone uses air tools or not, then why do you post in someones thread about it, then criticize their methods?