hyperv6

I have been reading this for a while and you and Snoopy have the right idea as there is a lot more to this than the media is telling and GM can say.

At this point GM has to do an internal investigation that they hired a past department of Justice lawyer to lead. He is fully independent and will give full disclosure on this to the government and to the public.

GM also can not say much now for several reasons. One they do not know all that went on yet.

Second they needs to use care in what they say with pending legal cases and not all the info yet available. It is kind of like when you are in a accident never say it was your fault even if it was as they can really take away any rights you have and use all you say against you.

As for the issue itself I think we here know as well as most this is a very over blown case. Now I am not saying GM did not screw up as I am sure someone some where made the wrong call. But on the other hand this is not an issue many have even heard of let alone even had it happen.

There are some things that need to be heard and considered. First off GM in this era was a cooperate cultural wreck. The left hand has no idea what the right has was doing. I would recommend reading Bob Lutz book Car Guys vs. Bean Counters to get a good idea how bad things were in communication alone.

Second I would love to hear more about the 13 deaths and 31 crashes. As of this point I have heard the details of two and there is more than the media is telling.

Two were killed when the Cobalt SS got airborne at 89 MPH and went off the road and hit a tree. The driver had no license, no insurance, no seat belt and was OVi. He hit a tree and they say the bags did not go off. Well I saw a photo and even if it had the tree was back most in the drivers lap. His legs went through the floor. I would say his chance of survival even with a functioning bag were unlikely.

Another a girl was 60 plus in a 25 zone and no belt again and hit a tree. She may or may not have lived if she had a belt on but odds are the bag would not have saved here.

Generally losing the ignition in a car is not a death sentence. Normally you either hit the key again and start the car or you pull to the side as cars do steer generally easy at speed and you still have at least one or two pumps on the brakes with vacuum.

Now I am not absolving GM of their part in this but I suspect there were many things also that lead to the deaths over and above the ignition cutting out. The ignition was only the start of the chain that had other circumstances that contributed to some of the deaths.

I am sure there was someone who was very unlucky that pulled out in front of a car or just was in the wrong place at the wrong time to have it happen.

My point is the media should provide full disclosure on this and not just the GM side of it. Issue like this need qualified.

Also to keep perspective this issue has been made out to be the worst car issue ever by the media. The truth is there have been even more deadly issue and cars than this. Even for this era the Cobalt is 4th on the list for deaths per million cars sold.

The bottom line is there really is much more to this than just the GM side and we all should keep an open mind and perspective on this. The media has not been fully disclosing the facts, The safety people are grand standing and the politicians are just being themselves trying to get on the news looking like they are really doing something.

In the end the cars will be fixed the families will be settled and GM will be fined. In 6 months many will forget all about this.

Most people just hear about this and get hit with the shock value of the media but this car has not even been built for a few years now and most people will not care in the not to distant future once the media has moved on.

If this was not GM I suspect that it would have just been a small story and the media would have moved on. Right now the entire industry is in fear of these stories a they all think they could be next after the Toyota deal and GM now. Ford, Chrysler and Audi all have taken similar unfair hits.

In the media if it bleeds it leads.

I find it refreshing that many here see this as it really is vs. other web sites. We hear know that this is not a issue many if any here have seen. I have seen more where the key got stuck in the ignition and could not be shut off than any other issue.

We are now in an era where many today get their news from John Stewart on the comedy channel. That is so sad. I am not so sure if it is telling of the poor state of the public, media or both.

The truth is I have seen much worse auto issues out there that never get mentioned on the news.

Lawagz

Hyperv6: That was a good post and what everyone seems to be forgetting is that the media is in the business of selling sensationalism. If it's not sensational, they will make it that way just to make a story. I guess you could almost call it media terrorism (though I hate to use the term and will probably be chastised for it!). But, yes, there is so much more to this than what we know.
I would equate this to any jury trial in court (I have been on many, including a murder trial where the defendant was found guilty of 2nd degree murder) and what comes out in the media is COMPLETELY different than what was heard in the courtroom.........this situation with GM just needs to play out.
I, for one, am not panicking - I'm driving my '08 HHR to Lafayette, LA next week from San Antonio, Texas and have no doubts about the vehicle whatsoever.

hyperv6

That is what I am glad to see here is most people are dealing with this in a sensible real way. I have worked in the industry for years and have seen issues come and go.

I worried that this would panic those here at the heart of the issue and to be honest this web site is more realistic about it than most others.

Also the claimed issues are not something most of us who drive these cars have seen or experienced. I am sure there are some but no where neat the instant death some web sites and media would like to make you think.

I know the media likes hype as it helps bring in readers and viewers for better advertising dollars. But I too never discount other motives as companies behind some of the promoting of issues with competing companies. It is dirty and under handed but it goes on. Where I work we get into stories in different publications and often you can see the mention is tied directly to how much advertising you spend. If they will do It for promotion you can be sure many will do it for harm too.

Also companies make mistakes and miscalculations. I really do not believe GM set out to do any harm. These parts may have been out of spec but many parts are in the industry. Generally they work for the life of the car and no issues are had.

As for catching it later that just depends on who was dealing with it and what they did with the info. This is what I expect we will hear about.

Keep in mind GM was so dysfunctional at this time that the head of the Sheet Metal stamping was asked by Bob Lutz why GM could not do panel gaps as good a Hyundai. He was told we can do that. Bob asked then why do you not do that. He was told because we were never told to do it. Bob told the engineer if you see something that needs done like this just do it. If GM can screw themselves on making a better car they can screw up on something like a ignition switch too.

Also the Z51 package on the 84 Corvette was so stiff it would bounce the fillings out of your teeth. The engineers never caught it till the car was on the market. What was the cause? Shocks with the wrong valving

Why was it not caught? The car was kept under such tight wraps it was only tested on the proving grounds an it never translated to the pock marked streets of Detroit where the media first drove it. The next year they had different settings.

I am not sure if there was someone inside GM that tried to cover this up or not. I hope it was more incompetence for who ever made the call. If they pin it on someone and they just thought it would go away I would hate to live with that.

Anyways This too shall pass.

I will get my ignition fixed later on when the rush is over. In working on cars all my life I have had many cut out on me over the years.

jtunney45

went to dealer for ignition switch recall in which airbags could fail.. but told no parts are available to complete the recall.. wtf!! 2007 HHR LT Recalled, but still unable to fix

whopper

To use your expression - "WTF"???? - didn't you read ANY of the word from GM or the media? Why don't you go do some reading.

firemangeorge

In GM's defense.
I'm sure it's hard to just "magically" come up with millions of replacement switches.

Come On readers, use some common sense.

hyperv6

GM had made it clear on some models when the parts would be available.

The issue is not only having enough but also having parts that they know are no old stock that could be just the same part.

That was part of the issue with the new parts having the same part number as the old one they have been dealing with. Someone in the past did change the upgraded part number when it was replaced.

obie

I never said it was my call.

obie

No I don't know the whole story, and don't presume to. GM can tell as much or as little as it wants to, and will surely go by their lawyers' advice as to where to draw the line.
Of course, they don't have any choice about responding to subpoenas for statistics, engineering records and other documents.
Honestly, I don't prejudge GM. I'm not even interested in the tort liability side of this. Just the root cause analysis of the defect. Same way I'd be interested in a recall of Fords, Toyotas, Chryslers or VWs. Except that I drive an HHR, so the interest is a little more personal. I'm also interested in the investigation as to whether the NHTSA failed or not in its legal duty to protect consumers.

obie

And yes, I totally agree that keeping lanyards and other heavy objects on car keys are a bad practice, and even on the best of ignition switches will cause wear & tear and increase the likelihood of costly repairs at the least.