Hi From MO. How do I soften 2LT 08 ride
07-15-2011, 11:55 PM
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: 08-26-2008
Location: Sequim Washington
Posts: 1,488
15" will definitely give you the best ride quality, but First you need to Analyze your Performance needs.
Also the availability of acceptable looking 15" wheels and the accessories available for them.
You need to make sure the Wheel bolt pattern, Hub, and Offset are correct for the HHR.
You need to make sure the "wheel width" is correct for the final tire size used.
You need to make sure the final O.D of the unit is within tolerance for steering and fender clearances.
It's a trade off ....
15's are smoother than 16's
16's are smoother than 17's but still not smooth ....
17's are smoother then 18's
And last you need to pick a smoother running tire.
All this within keeping your life simpler !!!
Also the availability of acceptable looking 15" wheels and the accessories available for them.
You need to make sure the Wheel bolt pattern, Hub, and Offset are correct for the HHR.
You need to make sure the "wheel width" is correct for the final tire size used.
You need to make sure the final O.D of the unit is within tolerance for steering and fender clearances.
It's a trade off ....
15's are smoother than 16's
16's are smoother than 17's but still not smooth ....
17's are smoother then 18's
And last you need to pick a smoother running tire.
All this within keeping your life simpler !!!
Last edited by Silverfox; 07-16-2011 at 09:32 AM.
07-15-2011, 11:59 PM
#13
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Join Date: 06-30-2010
Location: Kannapolis NC
Posts: 25,739
205/65/15 tires are a good choice as they are very close to the overall diameter of the stock tires, your speedo will read 0.8% slow, but that's not a big deal. You may want to try going for the higher profile tires before changing out shocks/struts/springs because the relative cost will be lower.
07-17-2011, 05:29 PM
#14
Thread Starter
Join Date: 07-11-2011
Location: Mo
Posts: 7
Silverfox really hit the nail on the head, research is the key to finding the right tires to meet your needs and expectations. You might find a really great deal on some all season passenger tires, but they can give you a harsher ride than might expect. Touring tires aren't just a marketing gimmick, they do in general give a smoother and quieter ride than ordinary all season tires, but you pay more for the stricter attention to noise and ride management.
Since you are looking to reduce the ride harshness in your HHR stay away from performance tires, yes they stick like glue on a twisty road, but you pay the price with a stiffer ride and more noise. And while you can opt for factory stock steel rims, you will find that either factory alloy wheels or aftermarket alloy wheels will give a smoother ride. Alloy wheels are lighter in general and lightness is an asset in wheels, the less unsprung weight, the better the ride will be.
One bit of advice that I give everyone who asks me about tires is to avoid the big box stores and find a reputable local tire store. A good tire store with an experienced staff will always be able to give you more insight and advice than a big box tire store which is mainly concerned about volume and maximizing its profits.
Since you are looking to reduce the ride harshness in your HHR stay away from performance tires, yes they stick like glue on a twisty road, but you pay the price with a stiffer ride and more noise. And while you can opt for factory stock steel rims, you will find that either factory alloy wheels or aftermarket alloy wheels will give a smoother ride. Alloy wheels are lighter in general and lightness is an asset in wheels, the less unsprung weight, the better the ride will be.
One bit of advice that I give everyone who asks me about tires is to avoid the big box stores and find a reputable local tire store. A good tire store with an experienced staff will always be able to give you more insight and advice than a big box tire store which is mainly concerned about volume and maximizing its profits.
Thank you for this certainly was unknown to me. My theory has always been the heavier the tire/wheel the more demand it would place on the shock/strut therefore defeating the shock resulting in a musher/softer ride???
However less unsprung weight is something I’m unfamiliar with can you break that down just a little bit more for me as I move forward in the buying process, because what you/HHR family has to say about this does matter in my buying decision. Thank You Again.
07-17-2011, 05:36 PM
#15
Thread Starter
Join Date: 07-11-2011
Location: Mo
Posts: 7
Hi, could anyone recommend an aftermarket wheel company that deals in 15" wheels along the lines of a spoke/baby moons/steel/ etc... (I’m familiar with tire rack –selection is somewhat limited/back-ordered but good)
nice to see someone form the showme state.
07-17-2011, 05:50 PM
#17
Senior Member
Join Date: 08-26-2008
Location: Sequim Washington
Posts: 1,488
843 Could be right ... I have no opinion on this issue of wheel lightness/softer ride..
But the main reason I see for going to the Machined Aluminum Wheel would be,
1. Appearance choices.
2. The trueness/runout of a Machined wheel over the OEM stock steel wheel.
I must however state that the 2 .. 2011 HHR 1LT's I just purchased with the 5 Spoke steel wheels are very good on runout. Absolutely no vibration/wobble on either car up to 70 MPH.
Not so in the past.
OEM Disc steel wheels were a Pain In the ..A_s .. for consistent acceptable runout.
Also I would at least, highly recommend an upgraded Street Rated rear sway bar like Progressive if you go ahead with this change.
SF
But the main reason I see for going to the Machined Aluminum Wheel would be,
1. Appearance choices.
2. The trueness/runout of a Machined wheel over the OEM stock steel wheel.
I must however state that the 2 .. 2011 HHR 1LT's I just purchased with the 5 Spoke steel wheels are very good on runout. Absolutely no vibration/wobble on either car up to 70 MPH.
Not so in the past.
OEM Disc steel wheels were a Pain In the ..A_s .. for consistent acceptable runout.
Also I would at least, highly recommend an upgraded Street Rated rear sway bar like Progressive if you go ahead with this change.
SF
07-17-2011, 06:02 PM
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: 08-26-2008
Location: Sequim Washington
Posts: 1,488
Be aware that there is some cross over in the HHR .. Malibou .. Cobalt
wheels.
Depending on the model & year.
SF
Last edited by Silverfox; 07-17-2011 at 08:21 PM.
07-17-2011, 06:55 PM
#19
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Join Date: 06-30-2010
Location: Kannapolis NC
Posts: 25,739
OK jkwministry, here's a hopefully simple yet understandable explanation of unsprung weight and its effects on ride quality.
The unsprung weight of a wheel controls a trade-off between a wheel's bump-following ability and its vibration isolation. Bumps and surface imperfections in the road cause tire compression—which induces a force on the unsprung weight. The unsprung weight then responds to this force with movement of its own. The amount of movement, for short bumps, is inversely proportional to the weight - a lighter wheel which readily moves in response to road bumps will have more grip and more constant grip when tracking over an imperfect road. For this reason, lighter wheels are sought especially for high-performance applications. In contrast, a heavier wheel which moves less will not absorb as much vibration; the irregularities of the road surface will transfer to the cabin through the geometry of the suspension and hence ride quality and road noise are deteriorated. For longer bumps that the wheels follow, greater unsprung mass causes more energy to be absorbed by the wheels and makes the ride worse.
Pneumatic or elastic tires help by providing some springing for most of the (otherwise) unsprung mass, but the damping that can be included in the tires is limited by considerations of fuel economy and overheating. The shock absorbers, if any, damp the spring motion also and must be less stiff than would optimally damp the wheel bounce. So the wheels execute some vibrations after each bump before coming to rest. On dirt roads and perhaps on some softly paved roads, these motions form small bumps, known as corrugations, washboarding or "corduroy" because they resemble smaller versions of the bumps in roads made of logs. These cause sustained wheel bounce in subsequent vehicles, enlarging the bumps.
High unsprung weight also exacerbates wheel control issues under hard acceleration or braking. If the vehicle does not have adequate wheel location in the vertical plane (such as a rear-wheel drive car with Hotchkiss drive, a live axle supported by simple leaf springs), vertical forces exerted by acceleration or hard braking combined with high unsprung mass can lead to severe wheel hop, compromising traction and steering control.
As mentioned above, there is a positive effect of unsprung mass. High frequency road irregularities, such as the gravel in an asphalt or concrete road surface, are isolated from the body more completely because the tires and springs act as separate filter stages, with the unsprung weight tending to uncouple them. Likewise, sound and vibration isolation is improved (at the expense of handling), in production automobiles, by the use of rubber bushings between the frame and suspension, by any flexibility in the frame or body work, and by the flexibility of the seats.
The easiest way to experience the differences in ride between the usually heavier stock type steel rims, and alloy rims is to test drive the same model car back to back, one with alloys and one on steel. Sometimes the difference is subtle, and sometimes it is quite pronounced.
The unsprung weight of a wheel controls a trade-off between a wheel's bump-following ability and its vibration isolation. Bumps and surface imperfections in the road cause tire compression—which induces a force on the unsprung weight. The unsprung weight then responds to this force with movement of its own. The amount of movement, for short bumps, is inversely proportional to the weight - a lighter wheel which readily moves in response to road bumps will have more grip and more constant grip when tracking over an imperfect road. For this reason, lighter wheels are sought especially for high-performance applications. In contrast, a heavier wheel which moves less will not absorb as much vibration; the irregularities of the road surface will transfer to the cabin through the geometry of the suspension and hence ride quality and road noise are deteriorated. For longer bumps that the wheels follow, greater unsprung mass causes more energy to be absorbed by the wheels and makes the ride worse.
Pneumatic or elastic tires help by providing some springing for most of the (otherwise) unsprung mass, but the damping that can be included in the tires is limited by considerations of fuel economy and overheating. The shock absorbers, if any, damp the spring motion also and must be less stiff than would optimally damp the wheel bounce. So the wheels execute some vibrations after each bump before coming to rest. On dirt roads and perhaps on some softly paved roads, these motions form small bumps, known as corrugations, washboarding or "corduroy" because they resemble smaller versions of the bumps in roads made of logs. These cause sustained wheel bounce in subsequent vehicles, enlarging the bumps.
High unsprung weight also exacerbates wheel control issues under hard acceleration or braking. If the vehicle does not have adequate wheel location in the vertical plane (such as a rear-wheel drive car with Hotchkiss drive, a live axle supported by simple leaf springs), vertical forces exerted by acceleration or hard braking combined with high unsprung mass can lead to severe wheel hop, compromising traction and steering control.
As mentioned above, there is a positive effect of unsprung mass. High frequency road irregularities, such as the gravel in an asphalt or concrete road surface, are isolated from the body more completely because the tires and springs act as separate filter stages, with the unsprung weight tending to uncouple them. Likewise, sound and vibration isolation is improved (at the expense of handling), in production automobiles, by the use of rubber bushings between the frame and suspension, by any flexibility in the frame or body work, and by the flexibility of the seats.
The easiest way to experience the differences in ride between the usually heavier stock type steel rims, and alloy rims is to test drive the same model car back to back, one with alloys and one on steel. Sometimes the difference is subtle, and sometimes it is quite pronounced.
Last edited by 843de; 07-17-2011 at 09:27 PM.
07-17-2011, 08:31 PM
#20
Senior Member
Join Date: 08-26-2008
Location: Sequim Washington
Posts: 1,488
OK jkwministry, here's a hopefully simple yet understandable explanation of unsprung weight at its effects on ride quality.
The unsprung weight of a wheel controls a trade-off between a wheel's bump-following ability and its vibration isolation. Bumps and surface imperfections in the road cause tire compression—which induces a force on the unsprung weight. The unsprung weight then responds to this force with movement of its own. The amount of movement, for short bumps, is inversely proportional to the weight - a lighter wheel which readily moves in response to road bumps will have more grip and more constant grip when tracking over an imperfect road. For this reason, lighter wheels are sought especially for high-performance applications. In contrast, a heavier wheel which moves less will not absorb as much vibration; the irregularities of the road surface will transfer to the cabin through the geometry of the suspension and hence ride quality and road noise are deteriorated. For longer bumps that the wheels follow, greater unsprung mass causes more energy to be absorbed by the wheels and makes the ride worse.
Pneumatic or elastic tires help by providing some springing for most of the (otherwise) unsprung mass, but the damping that can be included in the tires is limited by considerations of fuel economy and overheating. The shock absorbers, if any, damp the spring motion also and must be less stiff than would optimally damp the wheel bounce. So the wheels execute some vibrations after each bump before coming to rest. On dirt roads and perhaps on some softly paved roads, these motions form small bumps, known as corrugations, washboarding or "corduroy" because they resemble smaller versions of the bumps in roads made of logs. These cause sustained wheel bounce in subsequent vehicles, enlarging the bumps.
High unsprung weight also exacerbates wheel control issues under hard acceleration or braking. If the vehicle does not have adequate wheel location in the vertical plane (such as a rear-wheel drive car with Hotchkiss drive, a live axle supported by simple leaf springs), vertical forces exerted by acceleration or hard braking combined with high unsprung mass can lead to severe wheel hop, compromising traction and steering control.
As mentioned above, there is a positive effect of unsprung mass. High frequency road irregularities, such as the gravel in an asphalt or concrete road surface, are isolated from the body more completely because the tires and springs act as separate filter stages, with the unsprung weight tending to uncouple them. Likewise, sound and vibration isolation is improved (at the expense of handling), in production automobiles, by the use of rubber bushings between the frame and suspension, by any flexibility in the frame or body work, and by the flexibility of the seats.
The easiest way to experience the differences in ride between the usually heavier stock type steel rims, and alloy rims is to test drive the same model car back to back, one with alloys and one on steel. Sometimes the difference is subtle, and sometimes it is quite pronounced.
The unsprung weight of a wheel controls a trade-off between a wheel's bump-following ability and its vibration isolation. Bumps and surface imperfections in the road cause tire compression—which induces a force on the unsprung weight. The unsprung weight then responds to this force with movement of its own. The amount of movement, for short bumps, is inversely proportional to the weight - a lighter wheel which readily moves in response to road bumps will have more grip and more constant grip when tracking over an imperfect road. For this reason, lighter wheels are sought especially for high-performance applications. In contrast, a heavier wheel which moves less will not absorb as much vibration; the irregularities of the road surface will transfer to the cabin through the geometry of the suspension and hence ride quality and road noise are deteriorated. For longer bumps that the wheels follow, greater unsprung mass causes more energy to be absorbed by the wheels and makes the ride worse.
Pneumatic or elastic tires help by providing some springing for most of the (otherwise) unsprung mass, but the damping that can be included in the tires is limited by considerations of fuel economy and overheating. The shock absorbers, if any, damp the spring motion also and must be less stiff than would optimally damp the wheel bounce. So the wheels execute some vibrations after each bump before coming to rest. On dirt roads and perhaps on some softly paved roads, these motions form small bumps, known as corrugations, washboarding or "corduroy" because they resemble smaller versions of the bumps in roads made of logs. These cause sustained wheel bounce in subsequent vehicles, enlarging the bumps.
High unsprung weight also exacerbates wheel control issues under hard acceleration or braking. If the vehicle does not have adequate wheel location in the vertical plane (such as a rear-wheel drive car with Hotchkiss drive, a live axle supported by simple leaf springs), vertical forces exerted by acceleration or hard braking combined with high unsprung mass can lead to severe wheel hop, compromising traction and steering control.
As mentioned above, there is a positive effect of unsprung mass. High frequency road irregularities, such as the gravel in an asphalt or concrete road surface, are isolated from the body more completely because the tires and springs act as separate filter stages, with the unsprung weight tending to uncouple them. Likewise, sound and vibration isolation is improved (at the expense of handling), in production automobiles, by the use of rubber bushings between the frame and suspension, by any flexibility in the frame or body work, and by the flexibility of the seats.
The easiest way to experience the differences in ride between the usually heavier stock type steel rims, and alloy rims is to test drive the same model car back to back, one with alloys and one on steel. Sometimes the difference is subtle, and sometimes it is quite pronounced.
Excellent/Interesting info and reply,
I guess with that, you could carry it one more step and take into consideration the gross weight of each Brand/Model/Type/Name tire considered.
SF