I'm gonna get cold air into this motor or else!
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Joined: 10-04-2010
Posts: 724
From: Delaware
I actually got PM from him a few months ago, agreed he was a great resource, and always willing to help out! I wonder if he ever figured out his harness problem.
Aggreed also on Meth or Co2. Local speed shop recommended leaving stock IC and then adding the Co2, going to a bigger IC without a bigger turbo(yes, has a larger cooling volume) you actually lose power. Personally to me, Co2 is cheaper to fill on a continous basis, and I'm still leary about adding a mix interanlly. Under the right(wrong) conditions you run the risk of poping your intake. Open valve+misfire=ka-boom! Now if I F-UP the Co2 install, I can pop welds on the IC , or worst case, I could over-cool and compress too much and start to stress the head-bolts, and or cause blow-by on the rings. Either way it's a crap shoot.
Aggreed also on Meth or Co2. Local speed shop recommended leaving stock IC and then adding the Co2, going to a bigger IC without a bigger turbo(yes, has a larger cooling volume) you actually lose power. Personally to me, Co2 is cheaper to fill on a continous basis, and I'm still leary about adding a mix interanlly. Under the right(wrong) conditions you run the risk of poping your intake. Open valve+misfire=ka-boom! Now if I F-UP the Co2 install, I can pop welds on the IC , or worst case, I could over-cool and compress too much and start to stress the head-bolts, and or cause blow-by on the rings. Either way it's a crap shoot.
there's a few aftermarket intercoolers out there that won't hurt your performance but are great upgrades over stock, for example the Werks Street IC, MPx IC, and even the CrazySteve IC. as much as i love ZZP and they make great products, i do believe that their IC is too big for the stock k04. and i've heard too many horror stories about Hahn's IC.
Here's some Poindexter info that certainly applies to intercooler heat exchangers. Although I deal with this stuff on a non-automotive basis, this is probably why the HHR SS intrigues me so. Water or meth injection is actually an old technology with a new twist. It's commonly referred to as indirect evaporative cooling (IEC). Evaporative cooling is the simple evaporation of water or other evaporatives. Latent heat is drawn from the air (Latent heat is that of which is absorbed without causing a rise in temperature). Wet-bulb temperature, as compared to the air's dry-bulb temperature, is a measure of the potential for evaporative cooling. The greater the difference between the two temperatures, the greater the evaporative cooling effect. Evaporation rate depends on the humidity of the air and its temperature. With that said, if you have a cold pipe gauge, monitor it on misty days. It might surprise you as you may see a 10d F or more reduction in intake temp which means more condensing of air molecules resulting in more energy.
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Joined: 09-20-2009
Posts: 1,058
From: Hayward, Ca.
i love how this thread's title is "i'm gonna get cold air into this motor or else!"....... yet it's about getting cold air into a hot turbo, which then blows the now hot air into an intercooler mounted on the front of the vehicle and then into the engine. a cold air intake for the turbo is pointless. if you want the air to be any cooler going into the engine...... add water/meth injection or a co2/nitrous intercooler sprayer.
just saying.
just saying.
The intake[cold] side of the turbo, the air goes through the turbo and to the I.C. so fast, it does'nt have time to heat up enought to hurt [unless your doing the undhood intake boogie].
With my Hood scoop[really big one] to modded air box setup, I am feed the turbo/intercooler cooler air from the git go. It also lowers my underhood temp a lot. Checked before and after temps. Besides it make the BOV and turbo spool up a lot louder.
Car definatly runs better and cooler now. "Moon"
Going to putting a Crazy Steve I.C. on, to keep from blowing sides out of stock I.C., and also a cold side I.C. pipe for same reason.
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Joined: 08-16-2009
Posts: 751
From: South
I believe I have posted on this subject before about whether cold air is better then hot air for our turbo cars after trying the SSA intake in the location it was made for (engine compartment) and then running the air filter in the fender well for cold air.
Cold air > Hot air, even for our cars.
We have this thing called a IAT1 sensor in our stock MAF and then IAT2 in our LICP that work together.
The IAT sensors senses the temp of the incoming air.
The PCM uses the IAT value, to adjust fuel , ADD FUEL if it is cold
take fuel away when it is hot.
I believe since we have 2 IAT's, the ECU takes the value of the incoming air temp vs. the temp after the intercooler to make adjustments.
So in theory if the air is colder coming in to start out with, even when heated up its should be cooler then incoming hot air to start with being heated up? People in this thread are assuming no matter what the air temp (colder or hotter) is coming into the turbo to start with, that after the air is compressed its going to stay at x temperature till it reaches the intercooler.
All I know is when my intake was a hot air setup it felt like the car was choked and ran rougher, even tuned for. Swapped to the air filter in the fender well and the car idled great and felt snappier off throttle.
Off topic: my custom extended clutch rod I made for my HHR SS is working flawlessly. No more notchy shifts, smooth as butter and higher pedal engagement.
I had to make one after pulling my factory clutch rod out and finding the thin 1/4 aluminum rod slightly bent (probably why my Spec clutch 3+ started draggin over time when shifting, it started out great and got progressively worse over the last 3 months).
FYI the ZZP clutch rod will not work on a HHR SS
Cold air > Hot air, even for our cars.
We have this thing called a IAT1 sensor in our stock MAF and then IAT2 in our LICP that work together.
The IAT sensors senses the temp of the incoming air.
The PCM uses the IAT value, to adjust fuel , ADD FUEL if it is cold
take fuel away when it is hot.
I believe since we have 2 IAT's, the ECU takes the value of the incoming air temp vs. the temp after the intercooler to make adjustments.
So in theory if the air is colder coming in to start out with, even when heated up its should be cooler then incoming hot air to start with being heated up? People in this thread are assuming no matter what the air temp (colder or hotter) is coming into the turbo to start with, that after the air is compressed its going to stay at x temperature till it reaches the intercooler.
All I know is when my intake was a hot air setup it felt like the car was choked and ran rougher, even tuned for. Swapped to the air filter in the fender well and the car idled great and felt snappier off throttle.
Off topic: my custom extended clutch rod I made for my HHR SS is working flawlessly. No more notchy shifts, smooth as butter and higher pedal engagement.
I had to make one after pulling my factory clutch rod out and finding the thin 1/4 aluminum rod slightly bent (probably why my Spec clutch 3+ started draggin over time when shifting, it started out great and got progressively worse over the last 3 months).
FYI the ZZP clutch rod will not work on a HHR SS
Last edited by HHRSSouth; Jul 21, 2011 at 08:56 AM.
Senior Member
Joined: 08-16-2009
Posts: 751
From: South
The exhaust side of the turbo is the hot air side, and makes for a really lot of underhood temps[like so hot you can't touch I.C. intake pipe, and other stuff]. If you draw your intake [to turbo] air from underhood, you are sucking hot air.
The intake[cold] side of the turbo, the air goes through the turbo and to the I.C. so fast, it does'nt have time to heat up enought to hurt [unless your doing the undhood intake boogie].
With my Hood scoop[really big one] to modded air box setup, I am feed the turbo/intercooler cooler air from the git go. It also lowers my underhood temp a lot. Checked before and after temps. Besides it make the BOV and turbo spool up a lot louder.
Car definatly runs better and cooler now. "Moon"
Going to putting a Crazy Steve I.C. on, to keep from blowing sides out of stock I.C., and also a cold side I.C. pipe for same reason.
The intake[cold] side of the turbo, the air goes through the turbo and to the I.C. so fast, it does'nt have time to heat up enought to hurt [unless your doing the undhood intake boogie].
With my Hood scoop[really big one] to modded air box setup, I am feed the turbo/intercooler cooler air from the git go. It also lowers my underhood temp a lot. Checked before and after temps. Besides it make the BOV and turbo spool up a lot louder.
Car definatly runs better and cooler now. "Moon"
Going to putting a Crazy Steve I.C. on, to keep from blowing sides out of stock I.C., and also a cold side I.C. pipe for same reason.
Senior Member
Joined: 08-16-2009
Posts: 751
From: South
I had a write up on how to make one with pictures and it deleted some how.
I'll post up some pictures for you
Factory rod (it was slightly bent, so I removed it)
ZZP adjustable rod for the Cobalt SS/TC compared to our stock rod. Our rod clips to the side of the pedal via the plastic piece, Cobalt SS/TC has a ball socket that one end of the ZZP rod pops into on the pedal, it comes straight out the pedal
My idea for extended HHR SS clutch rod
Finished product, the 1/4 hole is drilled with and F drill .257 (stock hole is .250) and then threaded with a 5/16-18 tap (same threads on the threaded peice of ZZP adjustable rod). I also JB welded it in the hole, then had to grind the hex part of the nut about half way off and round it off even with the rest of the rod, so the rod wouldn't bottom out on the stop.
Took some ingenuity and time to make it but worth the time and effort of not bending that stock aluminum 1/4" rod over and over. Also the only way to get the clutch rod is with a whole new master cylinder, so be super carfeul and take your time not to mess your stock one up modifying it.
Yes you could make the rod adjustable with a nut, but the nut is going to add even more length to the rod and might over extended the clutch cylinder.
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From: Texas
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Joined: 08-16-2009
Posts: 751
From: South
Thread Starter
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Joined: 05-06-2008
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From: Over here
You may want to review the basics of how a turbo works, as well as how intake air temperature (often referred to as IAT) affects ALL internal combustion engines. You will find that over 100 years of automotive engineering contradicts your statement.
