Front Sway Bar opinions please
02-04-2011, 10:15 PM
#11
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Join Date: 11-20-2009
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 54
Ok I did tires 20 inch I did springs Eibach and Struts KYBs (I think they are close to FE5 better than FE3 ) now just about ready for Sway Bar I think I handles great now you think I will notice big difference with the Sway Bar ?
02-04-2011, 10:22 PM
#12
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Join Date: 01-13-2008
Location: Washington State, where it rains
Posts: 4,708
So far as I know there are no front bars made that are too stiff for the HHR...especially with stock springs..a bar only adds to the spring rate on that corner that its controlling...now, when you start going to better springs there is the possibly of getting too stiff which will affect understeer in a bad way, but then again other then coilover there are no springs too stiff available over the counter(im talking really stiff springs)...where you run into bad understeer is not setting the rear up correctly( compared to the front) causing a unbalanced condition, one end twists and the other dont...not good,,just because you stiffin up the front does not mean you have lessened the weight transfer to that wheel...the wt transfer is still there just the body roll is lessened. A good example is in a dirt setup where one would run a stiffer left front spring so THAT wheel picks up more weight in the corners. Too much body roll will induce understeer quicker as the left front loses traction when the wheel lifts and puts excessive weight on the rt tire causing side slip...anybody who has ever played with setups knows 4 wheels on the ground is quicker then three...
Always go with a better shock when going to a bigger bar(Not so much with the SS though as the struts /shocks are fair to start with)Definitly with the LS cars.The stockers cannot keep up with the increased spring rates in cornering and will lose weight transfer control(shocks only control the rate of wt transfer,not the amount, springs control the amount) but as said as of this time there are no TOO stiff springs or bars out there over the counter for the HHR...you want to see severe understeer, watch some of the old cop car chases in the movies,,you can almost see air under the inside tire....too soft springs with weak shocks and almost no bar....personal belief if you use the best avail over the counter parts you will be at about the max you can go without having to go to exotic and expensive parts( coilovers - special bars - lower control arm mods- etc..expensive stuff ).., for the average driver....
Always go with a better shock when going to a bigger bar(Not so much with the SS though as the struts /shocks are fair to start with)Definitly with the LS cars.The stockers cannot keep up with the increased spring rates in cornering and will lose weight transfer control(shocks only control the rate of wt transfer,not the amount, springs control the amount) but as said as of this time there are no TOO stiff springs or bars out there over the counter for the HHR...you want to see severe understeer, watch some of the old cop car chases in the movies,,you can almost see air under the inside tire....too soft springs with weak shocks and almost no bar....personal belief if you use the best avail over the counter parts you will be at about the max you can go without having to go to exotic and expensive parts( coilovers - special bars - lower control arm mods- etc..expensive stuff ).., for the average driver....
02-05-2011, 12:53 PM
#13
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Join Date: 09-05-2009
Location: New England
Posts: 452
The factory FE3 bar is only 19mm (3/4"), so now if you're putting a rear bar on the HHR they seem to be anywhere from 19mm upto 25.4mm (1"). Pretty much anytime you upgrade swaybars, you don't want the rear bar to be bigger than the front (some hollow bars will change that argument). This will cause the whole system to be unbalanced and in turn, will cause to much "pushing" when going into a corner. In some circumstances this can end up having a worse affect than running no bar at all, and in extreme cases this can be downright dangerous.
This is the whole reason why manufacturers always like to put a front swaybar on their vehicles, but don't always feel the need to put on a rear.
02-05-2011, 02:12 PM
#14
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Join Date: 01-28-2009
Location: south carolina
Posts: 154
One of the big issuses we are all trying to address amount of body FLEX which translates into a noticable body ROLL in our vehicles and others. The rear bar does a very good job of addressing this problem in the rear area. A strut bar would be very nice for the front, but I've not seen one that would work. There was one from Autozone that CLAIMED to work,(and I bought one) but it wasn't even close. The strut tower mounts were for a rice burner of some brand. It would appear that to acieve a working solution to that delima will require some "Homegrown/shade tree" expertise. If you have a K&N air box as I do, well then things get increasingly interesting/challenging. In my case I'll have to design a triangular bar of some sort(used for years on Mustangs). Have you ever seen kits where the sub frames could be connected in Camaros, Challengers, Mustangs? The under side of the body is also a candidate for frame strenghtening. All these approaches amount to one thing; strenghtening the car as an entire unit. Stronger body= better handling. Only thing is, you can't just order that stuff off a website. However, spring is just around the corner here in S.C. and the "Busted Knuckle Garage" will soon be open.
02-05-2011, 03:17 PM
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: 05-21-2007
Location: Space
Posts: 175
Everytime I've ever upgraded suspensions on any type of car, a bigger front bar is an improvement.
The factory FE3 bar is only 19mm (3/4"), so now if you're putting a rear bar on the HHR they seem to be anywhere from 19mm upto 25.4mm (1"). Pretty much anytime you upgrade swaybars, you don't want the rear bar to be bigger than the front (some hollow bars will change that argument). This will cause the whole system to be unbalanced and in turn, will cause to much "pushing" when going into a corner. In some circumstances this can end up having a worse affect than running no bar at all, and in extreme cases this can be downright dangerous.
This is the whole reason why manufacturers always like to put a front swaybar on their vehicles, but don't always feel the need to put on a rear.
The factory FE3 bar is only 19mm (3/4"), so now if you're putting a rear bar on the HHR they seem to be anywhere from 19mm upto 25.4mm (1"). Pretty much anytime you upgrade swaybars, you don't want the rear bar to be bigger than the front (some hollow bars will change that argument). This will cause the whole system to be unbalanced and in turn, will cause to much "pushing" when going into a corner. In some circumstances this can end up having a worse affect than running no bar at all, and in extreme cases this can be downright dangerous.
This is the whole reason why manufacturers always like to put a front swaybar on their vehicles, but don't always feel the need to put on a rear.
On front-wheel-drive cars, the large bar goes on the rear, not the front. Because the driving wheels are at the front of the car, you want the increased roll stiffness at the rear. This improves traction at the driving wheels and reduces understeer which front-wheel-drive setups always seem to have. An anti-roll bar or a larger one would be used at the front of a front-wheel drive car only if the rear wheel lifts during steady-state cornering, and if the car leans too much. So use a front bar with caution unless you like heavy understeer on your front-wheel driver. -(pp. 149, How to make your Car Handle Fred Puhn)
Most of the roll you are seeing is coming from the tire sidewall giving , put some lower profile tires on and its pretty much gone. The fact remains truth , you put a larger front bar you increase understeer. This quote is also referenced in what is regarded as the bible of autocross racing "Secrets of solo racing".
"The correct adjustment for sway-bars is this: loosen (move toward the cut end) the sway bar connections on the end of the car that is not sticking well enough, and tighten the sway-bar on the end that is sticking well. The reason that it helps is a tad on the complex side, and is well explained in Phun's book" (pp, 91. Secrets of solo racing Henry Watts)
02-05-2011, 03:31 PM
#16
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Join Date: 12-14-2007
Location: Toronto ON Canada
Posts: 2,964
I have the FE1 front bar with a progress rear bar, CM springs which are a bit stiffer than stock. In the following pic of me on a banked short oval track, there appears to be more roll on the front than at the back. I thought a stiffer front bar would help, or as some have said, would it reduce traction at the front?
02-05-2011, 03:44 PM
#17
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Join Date: 05-21-2007
Location: Space
Posts: 175
I have the FE1 front bar with a progress rear bar, CM springs which are a bit stiffer than stock. In the following pic of me on a banked short oval track, there appears to be more roll on the front than at the back. I thought a stiffer front bar would help, or as some have said, would it reduce traction at the front?
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b7...0/IMG_0884.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b7...0/IMG_0884.jpg
02-11-2011, 08:53 PM
#18
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Join Date: 10-21-2008
Location: hemet, calif.
Posts: 1,831
I just had the poly bushings made a big diffrence i hadthe lMoog links installed a week or so with the 2 it made a big diffrence
Last edited by jay loukakis; 02-11-2011 at 08:58 PM. Reason: the poly bushings I got are 1 inch My HHR is a2006 2lt
02-12-2011, 11:29 PM
#19
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Join Date: 01-13-2008
Location: Washington State, where it rains
Posts: 4,708
A bigger bar will only push if you are already at the limit of bar size ( or have really really crappy tires on the front )....factory cars are purposely undrsized so a push happens as this is the easiest to control for the "average" driver.....the reason the front drops so far and the rear raises is BECAUSE of too much body roll....more spring and /or bar would correct this..these cars dont have a whole lot of flex .. at least nothing to worry about for a street car...nothing like the older cars..if they flexed that bad the windshield would pop out, notice it has no real retention clips..just glued in. As said theres no over the counter bar that will cause any handling problems unless your system is worn out....and be careful what you read, alot of the printed info is vehicle specific and may not apply to this platform....as people start experimenting better tips and tricks will evolve.....too much rear bar is bad..the weights up front.
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