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Moog problem solver control arm

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Old Apr 19, 2022 | 07:54 AM
  #71  
donbrew's Avatar
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From: Fredericksburg,VA
Have you ever looked at the HHR suspension?
Old Apr 19, 2022 | 08:52 AM
  #72  
Hvymax's Avatar
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From: MD
Originally Posted by donbrew
Have you ever looked at the HHR suspension?
Yes. I previously have done this on trucks with upper and lower control arms. Cut, relocate weld in fillers and gussets on the control arms. Side by side lower strut brackets with a spacer to keep the unused side from collapsing. I suppose I could scribble up a drawing when I get home.
Old Apr 19, 2022 | 11:12 AM
  #73  
fastsuv's Avatar
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From: lockport,ny
Originally Posted by jimvw
noise in the front end makes me think it may be time for LCA's. I was surprised at the torque specs, 73 ft/lbs and 180 turn?? That seems like a big move once the torque is reached. wouldn't be easier to just give the final torque setting? Just curious why they list it that way.
Yes, it's a real test of your upper body strength to get the 180 degrees! Sometimes I wonder how the nut cage ever holds up to the torque applied.

Angle is a more reliable way to get the required bolt stretch (which is what holds everything together). 180 degrees will always stretch the bolt the same amount because of the thread pitch. Torque vs bolt stretch is dependent on the thread friction, which is influenced by lubricants, rust, etc.

That being said, sometimes engineers spec things the most precise way, even when it isn't necessary and makes things more complex (I'm an engineer myself).

Steve
Old Apr 19, 2022 | 11:26 AM
  #74  
donbrew's Avatar
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From: Fredericksburg,VA
It is listed that way because it is the most accurate way to get a consistent clamping pressure. There is no "stretching" involved.
Old Apr 19, 2022 | 01:39 PM
  #75  
Lonwane's Avatar
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From: Phoenix
If you tighten a bolt 180 degrees after the required torque "stretching" of the bolt will occur.
HOWEVER, stretch is not what is measured or used in this application.
As Donbrew stated, it's the clamping force that the brainiacs calculated is needed for this part.
Therefore, that measurement is not applicable.
Old Apr 19, 2022 | 02:09 PM
  #76  
donbrew's Avatar
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IF you do it to spec there is no stretching. It is NOT a stretch or torque-to-yield bolt! The torque angled spec does not indicate a stretch, nor does an instruction to not reuse a bolt.
In a "torque-to-yield" or "stretch" bolt the threads are designed to deform when fastened thereby locking it. This is a very dangerous thing considering iron bolts and aluminum/magnesium alloy engines. It would also necessitate discarding the "captured" nut in this case (which is a major PITA) or a very soft bolt.

You would find stretch bolts in applications where the female side is harder than the male side, like a special bolt in a cast iron block.

GM says to discard almost all bolts because they don't trust you to closely inspect and clean them.
Old Apr 19, 2022 | 06:35 PM
  #77  
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From: Welland,Ont Canada
The LCA’s rear bolts are reusable, GM doesn’t really like that, cuts into sale of bolts! I just run a thread chaser and clean the threads, then apply liberal amounts of never seize to avoid galling the threads and corrosion for next time.

HHR head bolts are to be replaced and not reused. Some have gotten away with it, I like to change to ARP studs.
Old Apr 23, 2022 | 10:02 PM
  #78  
donbrew's Avatar
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From: Fredericksburg,VA
Originally Posted by jimvw
So the bolts on the LCA need to be replaced?? haven't seen that mentioned any where. I know the head bolts on my Land rover had to be replaced as they are stretch bolts...You only use them once. but that is an aluminum block motor. not the same thing here.
That's your take away? The exact opposite of what I said?

GM says to replace just about all bolts that have a torque spec. They also go into great detail about examining and cleaning them before reuse. If you are competent you can reuse any bolt that does not have visible damage.
Old Apr 23, 2022 | 10:19 PM
  #79  
Hvymax's Avatar
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From: MD
Originally Posted by Oldblue
The LCA’s rear bolts are reusable, GM doesn’t really like that, cuts into sale of bolts! I just run a thread chaser and clean the threads, then apply liberal amounts of never seize to avoid galling the threads and corrosion for next time.

HHR head bolts are to be replaced and not reused. Some have gotten away with it, I like to change to ARP studs.
ARP is the straight up schizz for any significant application!!!
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