RJ_RS_SS_350

While I was changing my catch cans back to phase 1 configuration today, I decided to test for pressure at ports 2 and 3, this time with a gauge. I disconnected the lines from the tee and plugged the gauge into the line to each port. At first I thought I had the same results as you reported, Nick. Pressure at port 2, none at port 3.

But then I realized I hadn't plugged the line to port 2 while testing port 3. Once I isolated and tested each line, they yielded the same results, zero psi, building up to nearly 1 psi after ~ 5 seconds. They may have kept building pressure had I waited longer, but I didn't want to let crankcase pressure build, and they both behaved the same, so I was satisfied.

drummerboy0088

So you're saying if I plugged port 2, I would feel pressure from port 3? So that would make sense as to why I felt pressure from port 2 and nothing from 3 - because I never plugged port 2 at all.

So then the question is, why am I getting a whine when port 2 and 3 are teed together to go in to the can, but if I disconnect 1 part of the tee it goes away? The can is producing "super suck", and port 2 is producing plenty of pressure, plus I put a new check valve on port 3 line and checked to confirm air flows one way - so I know there's no pressure coming from port 2 into port 3, it should all go directly into the catch can.

Right now (on the tee) port 2 and 3 are in line, while the in to the can is connected to the bottom of the tee. I could always try switching the can and port 3, that way port 2 and the can are in line, while port 3 is on the bottom of the tee so that way when the engine shuts off port 2 and pushes through port 3 it's a simple redirect - but I don't think that would make a difference since it's just a tee.

RJ_RS_SS_350

Well, if you pull off any hose from the tee, you are no longer pulling air from the crankcase, but from atmosphere. You've disabled this wind instrument. When it's all hooked up, the air rushing by is causing something to vibrate at a certain frequency to create this whine. I would guess it's a check valve or the catch can itself(something inside maybe).

I might try ditching both of the dirty side check valves, see what happens. Then I would try switching the clean side check valves. The condition is only present at idle, when no air is moving through the check valve between can and turbo. So I think that check valve is fine. But I still suspect the check valve between can and intake vacuum source. But there is a lot more vacuum from the manifold source, it's possible that either check valve in that spot would vibrate the same.

At idle, you don't need a check valve between can and manifold vacuum source. As a test, just put a straight line there, see what happens.

Dbeluscak

I would also double check the port 1 factory fresh air pcv for flow. From my recent experience you don't want that valve to fail. If the crankcase is positive pressure and the CAI is negative. Fresh oil is easily drawn into the turbo, charge tubes, intercooler, etc. Fresh air should flow into port 1, as far as I can tell the other check valves aren't necessary. Just extra insurance.

RJ_RS_SS_350

I agree, I would think, at idle, port #1 is at(or near) maximum flow, so it's possible something there could be resonating, and you certainly don't want it to allow flow to reverse either. Definitely want to ensure it's functioning properly.

The clean side check valves are necessary. They prevent one vacuum source from pulling air from the other vacuum source, thereby pulling only from the crankcase. A single can system needs both. A 2-can system only needs the one between can and manifold vacuum source, to prevent the catch can from being pressurized during boost condition(as it does on a single can system also).

drummerboy0088

The PCV from CAI to port 1 could be bad - when we were removing the old air box line off the LNF, a handful of oil flowed out, which probably got there because the old turbo on the LNF was saturated in oil a the connection between CAI and turbo.


Looking up a replacement PCV, it's labeled as "TUBE. Engine Crankcase Ventilation" (GM Part 12609617). If this did in fact go bad, and we pulled it from the LNF - this could be part of the problem.

It's part 11 on this diagram - 2010 Chevrolet HHR Hatchback AIR INTAKE SYSTEM

Dbeluscak

Well...blow through it, is it bad? Ya just don't want raw oil headed up that path. I had to remove everything but the exhaust to clean the oil up after my accident...not much fun.

There's a possibility of failure seeing as how it was on the old engine. Replacing it probably wouldn't be a bad idea. However, I would be more interested in purchasing the intake pcv. But there isn't a chance they would sell it separate from the intake manifold.

Good luck with the testing, keep us posted.

drummerboy0088

Are you talking about the Intake Manifold PCV Dbeluscak? They do sell it - I bought one off amazon for the TTR manifold, and air flowed both ways. Same thing with the one in my stock manifold. That's why I replaced it with a standard one way check valve.

ACDelco 12589440 GM Original Equipment Positive Crank Ventilation (PCV) Valve https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00HQSRVWO..._frbAxbB01YYWP

As for the PCV between CAI and port 1, they sell the entire hose (see my post above) which I might have to get. That (besides starter and AC) would be the only piece of the puzzle that's from the old LNF.

drummerboy0088

Quick Update (To get to the bread and butter, just skip to NEXT STEPS):

Got a new PCV for the CAI to port 1 (since we experimented with the last one and cut it all up). Still had the whine at idle. Just for S' and giggles, with the oil cap in we removed the oil dipstick - whine went away. So it's safe to say there's some issue as to why this setup isn't allowing enough pressure out of the engine.

Took the bumper off and tightened every connection for the charge pipes, the ones connecting to the intercooler were loose, and the upper charge pipe to the silicone coupler (to the intercooler) was VERY loose. We tightened all with an electronic ratchet, then did a few extra cranks by hand. Put soapy water over every connection and put into launch control - was getting between 11 - 12.5 PSI.

So we figured we solved the boost issue, time to isolate the crankcase wine.

We started thinking, and keep remembering there's crankcase whine with the oil cap, but no whine with that Clean Side Separator. As an experiment, we wanted to see if running the Separator to the in (dirty) of the can would help.


Our reasoning was to see if an additional vent source would help relieve pressure, and since it was running to the can, it would pick up any additional oil vapors before going to the manifold or the turbo inlet. Started up the car and no engine whine, time to road test!

Around the block - no whine, good throttle response, brakes feel solid, and boost! We thought we solved everything, so I decided to take it on the highway for a 33 mile run (that's roundtrip).

Beginning of the run the car was running well, but it started to slowly go downhill. I got on the highway and now see I have no boost in 1st or 2nd gear, but in 3rd gear I'm getting around 5psi with light throttle and it's holding. as I got closer to the end of 1st 1/2 of the run, I started getting around 2-3psi, it was holding, but as soon as the car shifted no more boost. Granted I was keeping the car under 30000RPM.

Get to my destination (1/2 way through the run), pop the hood, and there's oil all over the inside of the hood! Look around and realize my brother forgot to put the dipstick fully back, and oil must have been shooting out under heavy load (Never got above 3000RPM).

Cleaned everything up, put the dipstick fully back in, and there was a whine - the check engine light also came on - which I'm sure is the running rich code from the opel injectors.

Drove the car back, never getting above 2500RPM this time - engine whine at idle, and when it's in 3rd gear at 2000RPM. Checked under the hood, and no oil - so it reassured it came out the dipstick tube.


NEXT STEPS:
No more ghost hunting - it's TUNE TIME. It's obvious the PCM/ECM is freaking out - This install includes an engine with a higher compression ratio, larger injectors, a cylinder manifold, and a high flow air intake. The computer doesn't know what's going on since it's tuned for a stock LNF. The fact that we get boost, but begin to lose it, then get a check engine light shortly thereafter - I think it's safe to say the running rich code is causing the computer to dump all boost.

Maybe I was duped with an expensive catch can purchase. Teeing port 2 (back of valve cover) and 3 (between cylinder 2 and 3) to go in to the can could be too much, and the can can't keep up? Not sure if that's the case, but we're going to tune first like everyone recommended.

Just thinking out loud, but maybe the opel injectors could be causing all this? They're producing more fuel, so could that be creating excess pressure caused by overfilling? The wideband sensor and computer are trying to dial them back, which is why I'm getting a check engine light - p2178 running rich code. So the computer wants less fuel, but the injectors won't do that since they're larger - so that would create excess pressure?

At the end of the day, this LDK motor only has 50 miles driven - 33 of them on my highway adventure yesterday. After we followed the break in procedure from ZZP, we drained the comp cam oil, and replaced with new comp cam break in oil - which only has 50 miles.

For now, the car goes back in the garage and will sit until I get HPT - I don't want to damage this build. I'll then either get a ZZP PCM tune for all the upgrades, or if people here have tunes/tweaks for the opel injectors, ZZP High Flow manifold, TTR manifold, and this LDK motor running a higher compression ratio (9.3:1) I can just tweak in HPT.

After tuning, we will check to see if the crankcase whine goes away - if not, then we're going to run port 2 to the can, and 1 clean line to the turbo inlet, and plug the 2nd clean on the can. We'll then fabricate a can setup for port 3 for the manifold so they're two separate systems - like everyone has been experimenting with.

RJ_RS_SS_350

Have you triple-verified that the check valves are flowing towards their respective vacuum sources? A backward check valve will create excessive pressure buildup in the crankcase.

If they are for sure installed correctly, I would run a few tests: try bypassing the intake manifold(port 3) check valve(it's unnecessary at idle). If you still have whine, I would try bypassing the catch can.