oil filters
12-06-2008, 11:28 AM
#21
Senior Member
Join Date: 06-02-2008
Location: Fairport Harbor, OH
Posts: 2,358
good one jeff
12-06-2008, 12:48 PM
#22
Platinum Member
Join Date: 05-09-2006
Location: "Upland" Mesa, Arizona
Posts: 6,805
Someone already responded to you regarding this but, I'll add my 2 cents (surprise, surprise).
Maybe your dealers are not "friendly" but I called 4 dealers, here in AZ, and all were $5.00 or under, over the counter to the average "joe" (I paid $3.84 each because I purchased a case on my discount).
Are you assuming the OEM's are expensive from a dealer, or have you experienced it?
I have found Delco filters for my other GM vehicles, at WalMart, for about $.50 less than my dealer price.
12-07-2008, 10:08 PM
#23
Senior Member
Join Date: 08-29-2007
Location: CenCoast California
Posts: 256
There are a couple of features of the oil filter used in the 2.0, 2.2 and 2.4 Ecotec I-4s that are atypical of what most forum members may believe about oil filters.
First, it's actually a "filter element" rather than being a "filter" like the spin-on type oil filters used on V8s. Also, since the filter is naked (ie: not in a filter can) it lacks the bypass valve typical of spin-ons. That valve is inside the oil filter mounting on the engine block.
The OE oil filters (PF457G) are made by the high-end German filter manufacturer, Hengst, in a U.S. facility and are distributed by ACDelco. The quality of this unit equals or exceeds whatever you're going to find at mass-marketers. If you want to buy aftermarket, only a high-end brand, such as Wix, stands a chance of being any better than the OE PF457G.
The 3000 mile oil change is a silly myth marketed by the quick lube business along with those whose "technology clocks" haven't moved since the early-1950s. Today, changing oil every 3000 miles does only three things:
1) Puts more money in the pocket of whomever changes your oil
2) Wastes your money...both for the extra oil, the extra filter and the labor.
3) Is environmentally irresponsible as it wastes millions of gallons of oil annually.
If you want the best durability from your engine, change the oil when the oil life monitor light comes on. The oil life system (OLS) records two key data parameters that relate directly to engine wear 1) engine oil temperature history since the last reset and 2) number of crankshaft revolutions since the last reset. The OLS processes that data with software algorithms which have been continuously developed since the OLS was first offered by GM in 1990. About the only improvement (and it's a small one in most cases) you can make might be "halving" the oil filter interval, ie: change the filter at 50% and when the light comes on, rather than only when the light comes on.
The only two duty cycles that the OLS does not support are: 1) off-road use in dusty environments. If that is the use of your HHR, then you do need to change your oil more frequently and the information for that duty cycle is in the Factory Service Manual and 2) low annual mileage. If the oil life monitor light does not come on in a 12-month period, at the end of the 12 months, change the oil and reset the oil life monitor.
How do I service my own HHR?
First, I use Red Line 10W30 Engine Oil and ester-based synthetic product which is one of the best engine oil products on the market. I change it at " minus 50%" and change the filter three times. That is, at 50%, I change the filter; at 0%, I change the filter again and reset the OLS. At the second 50%, I change the oil and filter and reset the OLS. I also keep mileage records and the "-50%" interval seems to be about 15,000 miles. I have a number of vehicles, including the HHR, on long-term spectrographic oil analysis and with the other cars which see more than 10,000 miles annually, I change the oil every 16,000-18,000 miles with filters every 3000 miles or so and that drain interval was set by the alalysis results. All these engines use Red Line 10W30. Lastly, on this extended drain interval issue, you should not use extended drain intervals listed unless you're using an ester-based synthetic 10W30 such Red Line.
Hib Halverson
Technical Writer for Print and Internet
First, it's actually a "filter element" rather than being a "filter" like the spin-on type oil filters used on V8s. Also, since the filter is naked (ie: not in a filter can) it lacks the bypass valve typical of spin-ons. That valve is inside the oil filter mounting on the engine block.
The OE oil filters (PF457G) are made by the high-end German filter manufacturer, Hengst, in a U.S. facility and are distributed by ACDelco. The quality of this unit equals or exceeds whatever you're going to find at mass-marketers. If you want to buy aftermarket, only a high-end brand, such as Wix, stands a chance of being any better than the OE PF457G.
The 3000 mile oil change is a silly myth marketed by the quick lube business along with those whose "technology clocks" haven't moved since the early-1950s. Today, changing oil every 3000 miles does only three things:
1) Puts more money in the pocket of whomever changes your oil
2) Wastes your money...both for the extra oil, the extra filter and the labor.
3) Is environmentally irresponsible as it wastes millions of gallons of oil annually.
If you want the best durability from your engine, change the oil when the oil life monitor light comes on. The oil life system (OLS) records two key data parameters that relate directly to engine wear 1) engine oil temperature history since the last reset and 2) number of crankshaft revolutions since the last reset. The OLS processes that data with software algorithms which have been continuously developed since the OLS was first offered by GM in 1990. About the only improvement (and it's a small one in most cases) you can make might be "halving" the oil filter interval, ie: change the filter at 50% and when the light comes on, rather than only when the light comes on.
The only two duty cycles that the OLS does not support are: 1) off-road use in dusty environments. If that is the use of your HHR, then you do need to change your oil more frequently and the information for that duty cycle is in the Factory Service Manual and 2) low annual mileage. If the oil life monitor light does not come on in a 12-month period, at the end of the 12 months, change the oil and reset the oil life monitor.
How do I service my own HHR?
First, I use Red Line 10W30 Engine Oil and ester-based synthetic product which is one of the best engine oil products on the market. I change it at " minus 50%" and change the filter three times. That is, at 50%, I change the filter; at 0%, I change the filter again and reset the OLS. At the second 50%, I change the oil and filter and reset the OLS. I also keep mileage records and the "-50%" interval seems to be about 15,000 miles. I have a number of vehicles, including the HHR, on long-term spectrographic oil analysis and with the other cars which see more than 10,000 miles annually, I change the oil every 16,000-18,000 miles with filters every 3000 miles or so and that drain interval was set by the alalysis results. All these engines use Red Line 10W30. Lastly, on this extended drain interval issue, you should not use extended drain intervals listed unless you're using an ester-based synthetic 10W30 such Red Line.
Hib Halverson
Technical Writer for Print and Internet
Last edited by Hib Halverson; 12-07-2008 at 10:13 PM. Reason: added content
12-07-2008, 10:25 PM
#24
Senior Member
Join Date: 03-08-2008
Location: United States of Texas
Posts: 505
I looked at Fram, Bosch and STP
I looked at Fram, Bosch and STP. The STP and the Bosch are the same and looke like a better filter than the Bosch. They had more pleats and deeper pleats meaning more filter area. They did not have an AC Delco to look at. So it appears to me that the Fram and STP are better than the Bosch. I will try to find a AC Delco to compare.
12-10-2008, 02:35 PM
#25
Member
Join Date: 04-16-2008
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota
Posts: 38
I run a Napa Gold filter, which is a rebranded Wix filter. I run Mobile 1 5w-30 and change my oil every 5,500-6,000 miles. After 6,000 miles, the oil is dark, but not black. I can still barely see through the oil as it drains.
Ive used a Napa Gold filter on my 98 since I bought it and they have always worked great.
Ive used a Napa Gold filter on my 98 since I bought it and they have always worked great.
12-11-2008, 07:25 PM
#26
Member
Join Date: 11-21-2008
Location: pittsburgh,pa
Posts: 40
I run the ac-delco filters bought at my local dealer and if there is ever a problem he will have to deal with it.I used to run Kendall oil but its no longer pennsylvania oil and has become hard to get. I am now running mobil 1 changing every 5000 with the delco filter. They cant deny warranty with another filter but they could tell you you would have to pay for it and then you go back and try to get your money from the filter company if it turns out to be defective. I put 330k on a 92 Cavalier in less than 8 years and did 110 oil changes. Yes i did change the oil every 3000 miles. The deepest i got into the motor was a water pump at 220k. Yes i had the 3.1 z24 motor in a station wagon...........Too bad we cant get that motor in a HHR.
12-12-2008, 09:48 AM
#27
Senior Member
Join Date: 04-11-2008
Location: Eastpointe,MI.
Posts: 663
MGM-I had both an '88 and a '93 Cavalier wagon both with V-6s.I liked them but they both had body integrity issues-i.e. water leaks.The '88 got taken out in a collision and was replaced by the '93.The '93 took about 4 years to develop a serious water leak at the cowl which shorted out several relays in the under dash "inconvenience center".So we sold it.
12-12-2008, 10:13 AM
#28
Senior Member
Join Date: 08-06-2008
Location: Grand Haven, MI
Posts: 1,761
Someone already responded to you regarding this but, I'll add my 2 cents (surprise, surprise).
Maybe your dealers are not "friendly" but I called 4 dealers, here in AZ, and all were $5.00 or under, over the counter to the average "joe" (I paid $3.84 each because I purchased a case on my discount).
Are you assuming the OEM's are expensive from a dealer, or have you experienced it?
I have found Delco filters for my other GM vehicles, at WalMart, for about $.50 less than my dealer price.
Maybe your dealers are not "friendly" but I called 4 dealers, here in AZ, and all were $5.00 or under, over the counter to the average "joe" (I paid $3.84 each because I purchased a case on my discount).
Are you assuming the OEM's are expensive from a dealer, or have you experienced it?
I have found Delco filters for my other GM vehicles, at WalMart, for about $.50 less than my dealer price.
After reading this thread I decided I need to stop using the Fram oil filters.
No one has given any proof that Fram filters are bad, but enough have said so and because it's on the INTERNET, it must be true
I figured I would ask my dealer about OEM. He first pulled out an AC delco filter in a box and wanted about $8. I told him about Snoopy's post and he agreed to get me some of the "bulk" OEM filters (no box) for $5 each. I am stocking up on 4 filters.
12-12-2008, 02:52 PM
#29
Senior Member
Join Date: 08-17-2006
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Posts: 1,851
Maybe your dealers are not "friendly" but I called 4 dealers, here in AZ, and all were $5.00 or under, over the counter to the average "joe" (I paid $3.84 each because I purchased a case on my discount).
Are you assuming the OEM's are expensive from a dealer, or have you experienced it?
Are you assuming the OEM's are expensive from a dealer, or have you experienced it?
The dealership where I lease my vehicles from charges $12 if you buy from the parts counter.
Because of that I ordered some filters from the US, but shipping charges prevent me from doing that now (i.e. no cost saving).
Last month I needed a filter and went to a GM dealership closer to me and got an OEM filter for just over $9. It was an AC Delco that was made in Bulgaria...same place the Frams are made.
It looked identical to the Frams at Wal-Mart but with AC Delco information stamped on it, and it was cheaper than the Fram as well.
12-12-2008, 03:25 PM
#30
Senior Member
Join Date: 02-14-2007
Location: Luskville, QC, Canada
Posts: 380
I got myself a case of 12 Hengst / AC Delco last summer for 40 $CA shipped. It came from some dealership somewhere in north Ontario. Between my wife's ION and my HHR, I'm good for 3 years.
The guy was on ebay for a while; I don't know if he still is.
Yves
The guy was on ebay for a while; I don't know if he still is.
Yves